Cooper and/or Ozzie status could affect MB coming back next year

[Quin]

If Dunn was alone the problem.. then you have a point. But to say Lilly plays for Dunn.. And poof, everything works out.. Is silly talk.

 

Cause people are forgetting

Morel, Beckham And Rios are all having far from MLB season at the dish... If they have MLB type seasons, we can move Dunn down, if not out of the lineup.. But they were not... Why??? Cause Ozzie made them suck?... How?

 

 

Who is saying that? For the 8945798th time, we are saying play your best available players and see what happens. After 4 months of hitting in the .150s and striking out at a record pace, it was clear Adam Dunn was no longer in the conversation when discussing 'best available players'.

 

 

Then who replaces Lilly, as the UTL man to spill the regulars... And produce as Lilly had all season.

 

 

And who replaces all of them?

 

 

Who gives a f***? Isn't it more important that you get the worst hitter in MLB out of the daily starting lineup? Especially when said hitter is also batting cleanup every day? First step is getting rid of the lineup cancer. The highly paid manager would then need to get creative with his utility players and spot start candidates.

 

 

So you don't have an answer... Shocking.

 

Neither do you...really f***ing shocking.

[Quin]

You do realize this is a 162 game season, players get burned out.. So you are willing to loose those games, just so your UTL player can get some Abs.. You never played the game have you?

 

You're sounding awful familiar now.

 

You do realize, this isn't PS3 baseball this is real time baseball.. And these things matter right? You are taking a small sample size and stating that it would work.. I don't think it will at all. I think Lilly is where he will be for the duration of his MLB playing time, baring and rebuilding team.. as a UTL player.

 

A SMALL SAMPLE SIZE OF SUCCESS INSTEAD OF A LARGE ONE OF SUCK.

 

Again, if you take August as an example, Brent would have had to have gone 0-36, or more, just to match Dunn's batting average. That still leaves out the extra 5 homers and 12 RBIs he had. I think to match his OPS he would have literally had to go something like 0-125. In other words, Brent could have had to literally done nothing the entire month in the extra ABs he would have gotten and he still wouldn't have been worse than Dunn statistically on offense. That is still totally ignoring that Brent Lillibridge is at worst an average defender, and a plus defender in the OF, if he had played those positions while someone like Juan Pierre, Carlos Quentin, or PK DH'd for a day.

 

Those are real statistics, unlike your pie in the sky hyperbolic misdirects you keep throwing out there.

 

 

What about a 4 month sample size that showed Adam Dunn was the worst hitter in baseball? Why are you constantly ignoring that fact? Not only was he godawful but he was playing every single day for 4 months straight, in the cleanup position. Somehow this fact isn't important to you, your father Ozzie, and your brother Oney. Continuing to march him out there day in and day out was of utmost importance for some reason as he continued to either strikeout or pop out.

 

 

huh?

 

You go from confusing to off the wall nuts with this one.

 

A small sample size isn't the best idea to take on for a large argument.

 

No, you're DODGING A f***ING QUESTION.

 

Way to ignore what really happened for your fantasy land. You keep talking about "proof" and instead floating off to your HyperboleLand condo. I laid out statistical reality for you, and you still are ignoring it. Just like this entire thread has been.

 

[Quin]

I would love to drop him to 7-8-9th... But since we have players who are doing slightly better already there.. not much else place to put him...

 

With Rios, Beckham and Morel.. all at or below their weight in hitting.. hard to place him there. We could drop him to 6th, but that's still not doing much.

 

If you are trying to insult me, with the Ozzie comments.. Its failing, I respect Ozzie.

 

 

What really happened is this, KW signed an aging slugger on the decline.. you fail to admit that, instead pass all the blame on Ozzie, for KW poorly built club. Now, as before today.. Spin this so you don't admit you are wrong... again. Instead pick a flaw in this typing and attack.. as if that carries some merit.

 

 

ahh you are one of those guys...Here I gave you small sample so of course, it proves on a larger scale.. Showcase how playing Lilly everyday.. makes this team better.. over the long hall 4 months to be exact. I want evidence, proof, that this team is better with Lilly over Dunn.. ie Wins and Losses.

 

 

I have thrown out tons of numbers. I want you to actually prove they weren't going to better. For once, ACTUALLY show me something.

 

 

"We have no idea if we'll win more games by playing guys who can actually hit a little so lets just continue batting the worst hitter in baseball in the cleanup position."

 

More dodging.

[StrangeSox]

[Quin]

So, let me get this straight.. I have to prove your speculation (which you are calling #s) wrong, based on your opinion of a small sample size. That's what you are asking me right?

 

No, prove his facts.

 

I'm still waiting for you to quit dodging and provide any kind of solid numbers to back up what you are saying.

 

 

LOL, quit dodging you playing what if.. w/o facts..

 

I'm done.. thanks for the laugh here.. come back when you have something more than a what if... You're really bad at this you know that?

 

I can't wait till they fire Ozzie, and the team still fails.. what's your excuse then going to be?

 

You give nothing but speculation and demand it be proven wrong.

 

 

I didn't.. I played baseball...

 

All you motherf***ers sound a like. Most of us played ball in high school as well but don't use it as a basis for arguments.

 

Lets get back on track here...

 

GoodBye Mark, I love you.. but, I can't see a need for him at this time. I would think at this point in his career, he wants a chance at another ring.. which I don't see this team close to it for 2012.. I don't want another aging vet with a huge contract, we need to rid ourselves as many of those as we can.

 

YOU JUST f***ING CHANGED TRACKS, TRAIN MODELS, TRAIN COMPANIES, AND CONTINENTS ALL TOGETHER.

 

I don't think.. I know I did..

 

Lets recap shall we.. S/he argument is that, we replace Lilly in August, for Dunn. Now, s/he makes no mention of when.. Lets for argument sake state August 1. And why does S/he pick that month, and not prior.. well that's easy when you look at some facts...August was by far his most productive month, hitting .265/6/14...we know that now.

 

At the time Lilly just hit .188 for July, and .212 for June. Here Comes Ozzie on August 1st and goes.. You know what, I am benching Dunn for a guy hitting .200 over the last 2 months, and has over the course of a season been a bench utl player, and has failed as a starter in his career when given the chance.

 

I can just see how SS2k5 and other Ozzie haters, just love this move.. And argue with others on how this is putting the "best" players on the field. See now that s/he knows the numbers, it easy to sit back and play the What if game.. which is what Ss2k5 did.. and no one wins at that game, because it can be played till the end of days (bad movie by the way). It pure speculation, zero facts.

 

When has Lilli been allowed to be a starter and failed? Give me f***ing proof.

 

[Quin]

100% correct.. most people in life take offense when they think their opinions are correct/factually.

 

Yes. You. Do.

 

Because on August 1st every Baseball person in North American if not the world was still going.. there is no way Dunn doesn't start hitting for starters.

 

2nd, Ozzie benches Dunn for Lilly... 2 problems, 1 the CT comes out how Ozzie hates Kenny.. which who cares.. 2. Lilly just came off a month of hitting about as great as Dunn.. At the time, no one would have said it was a smart move. Now looking back, sure..

 

I personally think Dunn never fully recovered from his surgery, but is either to proud or stupid to admit it. And the off-season he finally recovers has a great 2012.. with or without Ozzie here.

 

 

By August 1st? No way. Even national writers were writing articles about how historically bad that Dunn had been. June 1, sure. July 1, maybe. By August 1st no one was really left saying start Dunn, especially in the 4th slot.

 

Break out google and look around.

 

 

You never answered this, just dodged it..

 

Where do you stick him in a lineup, and who gets moved up...?

 

DODGED.

[Quin]

I think him playing LF, Rios in CF and Tank in RF is the 2012 White Sox Starting OF. Leading off, sadly he might be the best option.

 

 

Why is that sad? If he is capable, then let him.

 

 

At best, he has a Juan Pierre type season..

 

 

At best? Juan Pierre can't run or field any more and has no power. De Aza with a handful of doubles would massively upgrade on Pierre. Only q is if he can keep the average up. He hits .270 and he is a massive upgrade on Pierre.

 

 

The dude will be 28 right at the start of next year season.. History tells me, a 27 year old minor league getting his big break... isn't exactly a show stopper. So having a Pierre type offensive season, is the best we can hope for.

 

Defensively My dead grandmother is better than JP.

 

 

actually 23... But, making excuses isn't going to sell me on him not being that great.

 

 

He doesnt need to be great to be better than Pierre. Average would be a huge upgrade.

 

 

So hitting at or around .300, stealing 40+ bags, and having around .350 OBP... sound good to you?

 

DODGED.

[Quin]

I think him playing LF, Rios in CF and Tank in RF is the 2012 White Sox Starting OF. Leading off, sadly he might be the best option.

 

 

Why is that sad? If he is capable, then let him.

 

 

At best, he has a Juan Pierre type season..

 

 

At best? Juan Pierre can't run or field any more and has no power. De Aza with a handful of doubles would massively upgrade on Pierre. Only q is if he can keep the average up. He hits .270 and he is a massive upgrade on Pierre.

 

 

The dude will be 28 right at the start of next year season.. History tells me, a 27 year old minor league getting his big break... isn't exactly a show stopper. So having a Pierre type offensive season, is the best we can hope for.

 

Defensively My dead grandmother is better than JP.

 

 

actually 23... But, making excuses isn't going to sell me on him not being that great.

 

 

He doesnt need to be great to be better than Pierre. Average would be a huge upgrade.

 

 

So hitting at or around .300, stealing 40+ bags, and having around .350 OBP... sound good to you?

 

DODGED AGAIN.

[Quin]

I didn't know slugging % for a leadoff hitter was a requirement.. But it was .388..

 

To me OBP, (how often a player)Ks, Runs, and SBs. I could care less if they hit 20 hrs... That what your middle of the order guys are for.

 

 

If you thought I was talking 2011, Pierre, than you are a bigger fool than the one who wanted Lilly to replace Dunn. And I have some Ocean property in Utah to sell to you.

 

HRs are great, but if you think they are needed in leadoff spot, and not a luxury.. I suggest you educate yourself on the game.

 

 

but that doesn't mean that a HR isn't better! What is more likely to produce a run, getting to first base on a single, getting to 2nd on a double, or getting home on a hr?

 

A leadoff hitter with a .340 Obp and 20 homers is a big upgrade on a leadoff hitter with a .350 Obp and 1 hr.

 

 

I never stated a HR isn't better.. Just not needed as much. If your leadoff hitter is getting 20 HRs 1 of 2 things is happening

 

1. He is Ricky Henderson

 

or

 

2. and More likely, your manager is wasting that players talent, and could be better served in the middle of the lineup.. like the 6 hole.

 

Take for instance, Alex Gordon.. He should be playing at 5/6 in that lineup.. Since he is a better HR hitter and in theory more people will be on base for him to knock them in with his HR. At his current place of 1, the likelyhood 7-8-9 are on base.. Are not as likely as 2-3-4...

 

 

He might also Turn white and have gold shoot out his ass... But the likely of these 3 things happening in 2012.. are slim and none... and None is leading by 20 lengths and slim is fading faster than the Sox playoff hopes in June.

 

 

DODGED.

[StrangeSox]

quinarvy is on a tear

[caulfield12]

This is like one of those trainwreck versions of CHEATERS that you can't avert your eyes from...as inevitable as the denouement may have been.

[southsider2k5]

quinarvy is on a tear

 

This is no longer Soxtalk's thread. This thread belongs to Q.

[caulfield12]

He can put it on his resume/CV for Baseball Debate 101: Accumulation of Exponentially-Damning Evidence or Counterarguments Nullified.

Edited September 21, 2011 by caulfield12

[Quin]

He can put it on his resume/CV for Baseball Debate 101: Accumulation of Exponentially-Damning Evidence or Counterarguments Nullified.

 

This is my new sig.

[southsider2k5]

He can put it on his resume/CV for Baseball Debate 101: Accumulation of Exponentially-Damning Evidence or Counterarguments Nullified.

 

TRANSLATION: You got knocked the f*** out.

[BigSqwert]

An epic Quinarvy beat down.

[Milkman delivers]

Haha, that was the most thorough owning in Soxtalk history. The sad part is that he'll deny it or flat-out ignore it.

[southsider2k5]

Haha, that was the most thorough owning in Soxtalk history. The sad part is that he'll deny it or flat-out ignore it.

 

I'm betting on the French approach...

[knightni]

Haha, that was the most thorough owning in Soxtalk history. The sad part is that he'll deny it or flat-out ignore it.

DODGED!

[Quin]

I'm betting on the French approach...

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Edited September 21, 2011 by Jordan4life

[bigruss]

:notworthy :notworthy

[Quin]

 

I have been searching for this video for years.

 

Thank you J4L.

[StrangeSox]

[BigSqwert]

LOL

 

We are some straight up nerds in here.