StrangeSox Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hey victory is there anything Ozzie could ever do or not do that would cause you to think he's not a good manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 08:44 AM) So what exactly did Ozzie do to make that happen? Not play them enough, play them too much, not read them a bed time story? Dunn and Rios aren't bad signings, waiver pickups.. Cause Kenny never does that... Its because of Ozzie, that's your stance? Adam Dunn has had how many different managers over his career? He was incredibly consistent over his career, until this year, despite being highly paid for a long time. He comes to Chicago, and goes the way of Nick Swisher, Javier Vazquez, Alex Rios, and company. The one consistent is Ozzie. You tell me what is going on here. They are good before and after Chicago, but not while playing for Ozzie. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 08:41 AM) I am stating what some GMs have stated over the years.. repeating it. And there are always exceptions to the rule, doesn't mean the rule doesn't apply. I have never heard that said. Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 08:48 AM) Adam Dunn has had how many different managers over his career? He was incredibly consistent over his career, until this year, despite being highly paid for a long time. He comes to Chicago, and goes the way of Nick Swisher, Javier Vazquez, Alex Rios, and company. The one consistent is Ozzie. You tell me what is going on here. They are good before and after Chicago, but not while playing for Ozzie. Why is that? so are you trying to say that dunn sucked this year because he was playing for ozzie?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:50 AM) so are you trying to say that dunn sucked this year because he was playing for ozzie?? Personally, I seriously wonder if Ozzie gave it real easy to Dunn in ST, because Ozzie always thinks that a veteran never needs a push to get himself in shape or ready. Ozzie always says that his veterans know what they need to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 08:50 AM) so are you trying to say that dunn sucked this year because he was playing for ozzie?? It makes more sense than because Kenny Williams signed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryMC98 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Adam Dunn has had how many different managers over his career? He was incredibly consistent over his career, until this year, despite being highly paid for a long time. He comes to Chicago, and goes the way of Nick Swisher, Javier Vazquez, Alex Rios, and company. The one consistent is Ozzie. You tell me what is going on here. They are good before and after Chicago, but not while playing for Ozzie. Why is that? So Rios was good prior to him coming to Chicago... Hmmm what exactly did Kenny give up for him again.. I forgot. And what did Rios do in 2010, who was the manager of the White Sox then? 2010, Javier Vazquez.. Man how he didn't get the CY young is beyond me, it was a crime, almost like the time he nearly missed out in 2004. You want to try and give me some other examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 08:55 AM) It makes more sense than because Kenny Williams signed him. i dont think its ozzies or kennys fault...i remember he didnt do good at all in the second half last year maybe that was already a sign of something wrong, like in this article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 08:48 AM) Hey victory is there anything Ozzie could ever do or not do that would cause you to think he's not a good manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryMC98 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) Personally, I seriously wonder if Ozzie gave it real easy to Dunn in ST, because Ozzie always thinks that a veteran never needs a push to get himself in shape or ready. Ozzie always says that his veterans know what they need to do. And I Agree with him, if you have been in the league, ink a big money deal.. You should know what you need to do to get ready for the season. Didn't Dunn also come out of the gate tearing the cover off the ball? He started to "Kenny", after he had his surgery.. I wondered if that had something to do with this season. Edited September 19, 2011 by VictoryMC98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryMC98 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 i dont think its ozzies or kennys fault...i remember he didnt do good at all in the second half last year maybe that was already a sign of something wrong, like in this article Nice find, and if that is the case.. I blame Kenny.. if a player is on the decline, and you ink him to a huge $ 4 year deal.. What player is going to go nope, I really don't deserve it. Then for the fans, the easy scapegoat is the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:05 AM) Nice find, and if that is the case.. I blame Kenny.. if a player is on the decline, and you ink him to a huge $ 4 year deal.. What player is going to go nope, I really don't deserve it. Then for the fans, the easy scapegoat is the manager. Its true, once a player who has been consistent for the better part of a decade has one bad part of a season, he's "on the decline" and should never be signed to a big money contract again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:05 AM) Nice find, and if that is the case.. I blame Kenny.. if a player is on the decline, and you ink him to a huge $ 4 year deal.. What player is going to go nope, I really don't deserve it. Then for the fans, the easy scapegoat is the manager. i think it shows even more how bad kws and ozzies relationship is when he signed dunn. we know ozzie didnt want that type of dh anymore. kw could have gotten martinez who would have been good and ozzie wouldnt have a dunn/thome type dh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:03 AM) And I Agree with him, if you have been in the league, ink a big money deal.. You should know what you need to do to get ready for the season. Evidenced by the fact that this team comes out of the gate flat perennially, maybe he's wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:08 AM) Its true, once a player who has been consistent for the better part of a decade has one bad part of a season, he's "on the decline" and should never be signed to a big money contract again. pretty much, look at dye. and my point of mentioning it isnt that they shouldnt have signed him,i can see why kw wanted to, but what it shows is that it makes sense why he did so bad this year. it continued from last year and clearly ozzie didnt ruin him Edited September 19, 2011 by Melissa1334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) pretty much, look at dye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryMC98 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 i think it shows even more how bad kws and ozzies relationship is when he signed dunn. we know ozzie didnt want that type of dh anymore. kw could have gotten martinez who would have been good and ozzie wouldnt have a dunn/thome type dh Martinez would have been the smart signing, looking back on it. But hindsight is 20/20. Dunn, can play the OF and 1b.. not very well but can if need be. I also looked at him if Paulie went to AZI as his replacement. Now if Kenny went out and grabbed an older guy who couldn't play the field at all, then I say you have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryMC98 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Evidenced by the fact that this team comes out of the gate flat perennially, maybe he's wrong? So only the teams that come out guns blazing are winners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 lets just get dave martinez and end all this madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:14 AM) So only the teams that come out guns blazing are winners? That's a pretty interesting dichotomy you've made up there. No, teams that always come out playing flat that also happen to follow the manager's philosophy of taking it easy on vets during ST and not pushing the team to get ready probably don't have the best approach and dig themselves into a big hole because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 10:03 AM) Didn't Dunn also come out of the gate tearing the cover off the ball? He started to "Kenny", after he had his surgery.. I wondered if that had something to do with this season. For what, 1 game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:00 AM) So Rios was good prior to him coming to Chicago... Hmmm what exactly did Kenny give up for him again.. I forgot. And what did Rios do in 2010, who was the manager of the White Sox then? 2010, Javier Vazquez.. Man how he didn't get the CY young is beyond me, it was a crime, almost like the time he nearly missed out in 2004. You want to try and give me some other examples? Do you want to explain how veterans consistently fail in Chicago, and yet that is Kenny Williams fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryMC98 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 lets just get dave martinez and end all this madness Giving the "emperor" new clothes does nothing. Change from the top down.. Fire Kenny, go after Theo Epstein, and in 3-4 years.. World Series again and again and again.. and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:14 AM) So only the teams that come out guns blazing are winners? It sure doesn't make it easier to win the 100 meters when you start 10 meters behind everyone else. Especially when it is a pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 19, 2011 -> 09:18 AM) Giving the "emperor" new clothes does nothing. Change from the top down.. Fire Kenny, go after Theo Epstein, and in 3-4 years.. World Series again and again and again.. and again. Like giving Ozzie new players pretty much every year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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