Sox best hitter endorses Walker

[Kyyle23]

Joe Torre was fired a couple of times and he's going into the HOF as a manager. He's only had one issue with Kenny and that was a few weeks ago. Kenny fired him just like Kenny fired Ozzie last year. He gets mad at a subordinate because he was called out for being unprofessional. He didn't "fire" him because he thinks he a bad hitting coach.

 

KW has wanted to fire him a few times, but you wont believe anything that disproves your theory that Walker has not done anything that warrants losing his job.

 

just wanted to test that question out on you, thanks

[Dick Allen]

Good point. So we can dismiss what players say about the coaches, I'm all for that.

You get your real knowledge from the opinions of talk radio hosts and call ins, and message board posts.

[Texsox]

You get your real knowledge from the opinions of talk radio hosts and call ins, and message board posts.

 

And interview request by the Yankees, don't forget how important the Yankees wanting to talk to you is.

[Balta1701]

You get your real knowledge from the opinions of talk radio hosts and call ins, and message board posts.

The one thing that never gives you real knowledge is the stat column or wins and losses. The stat column says that this offense has been below average, average, and terrible the last 3 years, especially when you consider that they're in a hitters park. Only 1 year of the last 5 have they been in the top half of the offenses in the AL, while they've been in the bottom 5 three different times, including worst in the AL in 2007.

[Milkman delivers]

Good point. So we can dismiss what players say about the coaches, I'm all for that.

 

If they ALL came out in support of him, it'd be a different story. I think you act purposely obtuse sometimes. Scratch that. I'm sure of it.

[Dick Allen]

The one thing that never gives you real knowledge is the stat column or wins and losses. The stat column says that this offense has been below average, average, and terrible the last 3 years, especially when you consider that they're in a hitters park.

What about the talent level? Does that play a role? The offense isn't very good this year, but there are 3 guys that didn't do the job. Next time you're at a game sit next to the dugout. When a White Sox strikes out by swinging at a pitch over his head or pops up just think about how a guy sitting in the dugout is the guy who is totally at fault. I'm extremely confident if the Sox don't change personnel on the field the results at the plate no matter who is coaching them next year will have a familiar look, if not worse.

[Texsox]

It's not special to most people because you EXPECT a player to say nice things about his coaches, especially a classy guy like Konerko. If Walker were the consensus worst coach in professional sports, you'd still get the occasional fluff piece from a player.

 

 

Good point. So we can dismiss what players say about the coaches, I'm all for that.

 

 

If they ALL came out in support of him, it'd be a different story. I think you act purposely obtuse sometimes. Scratch that. I'm sure of it.

 

And I'll agree with you again. If all that played for him came out, that would be a different thing. Hell, if 3/4 came out, I'd probably accept that. How about you? Three-fourth enough?

[Balta1701]

What about the talent level? Does that play a role? The offense isn't very good this year, but there are 3 guys that didn't do the job. Next time you're at a game sit next to the dugout. When a White Sox strikes out by swinging at a pitch over his head or pops up just think about how a guy sitting in the dugout is the guy who is totally at fault. I'm extremely confident if the Sox don't change personnel on the field the results at the plate no matter who is coaching them next year will have a familiar look, if not worse.

But thanks to the identity of our GM, the White Sox change players more than any other team in MLB.

[caulfield12]

Besides Konerko this year, what has Greg Walker done?

 

Konerko > the rest of the roster

 

Maybe in JR's mind. If that's the case, I give up on this franchise until there's a new owner or Konerko/Buehrle are no longer around because it's truly hopeless to make any changes.

 

Essentially, Paul Konerko gets to decide who we add before the July 31st deadline and who the hitting coach is as long as he's on the roster. KW can't fire/hire any of the coaching staff. Ozzie can't get rid of KW, etc.

 

Sounds like a very dysfunctional arrangement. JR at some point should wake up and realize it's costing him money and fan support to continue on like this for much longer.

 

 

[caulfield12]

But thanks to the identity of our GM, the White Sox change players more than any other team in MLB.

 

 

Except the odds of any of that 25-35% 2011-12 roster turnover being Peavy/Beckham/Rios/Dunn is about 0.5%

 

Castro

Vizquel

Tony Pena

Frasor

 

There's 16% already.

Edited September 26, 2011 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Except the odds of any of that 25-35% 2011-12 roster turnover being Peavy/Beckham/Rios/Dunn is about 0.5%

You know who will fix them? Greg Walker, right? eh? eh?

[Texsox]

You know who will fix them? Greg Walker, right? eh? eh?

But *if* they do turn it around, and then say it was Walker, we can dismiss it

[Balta1701]

But *if* they do turn it around, and then say it was Walker, we can dismiss it

And if Walker and Guillen are replaced and they turn it around...clearly they deserve none of the blame.

[caulfield12]

Seriously, if you were the owner of the White Sox, and concerned with the franchise going forward, why would you take YET ANOTHER chance that Walker can turn around Beckham, Rios and Dunn?

 

Don't you have to first find out if another coach can get something out of them before you totally write off the equivalent of a $100 million investment?

 

Let's put it another way. You have just paid an expensive KAPLAN SAT/ACT tutor to increase your child's score and they've actually regressed in the two exams since their original score of 27. The second exam and third exam showed results of 25 and then 26. You heard another student (this is the Adam Dunn of the analogy) who was in all Honors/AP classes and had a 3.75 GPA actually got a 23 after working for two months with the same tutor. Would you keep paying that tutor your hard-earned money or try another approach?

 

Based on a FULL THREE SEASONS of "failing" results, besides Paul Konerko, what strong support exists for Walker besides saying Rudy Jaramillo and Leo Mazzone failed with the Cubs and Orioles...and that change just for change's sake won't make bad hitters miraculously better?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2011 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

And if Walker and Guillen are replaced and they turn it around...clearly they deserve none of the blame.

 

I think you could place some of the blame on Walker. Usually I would say I'd be interested in what the player claims, but now I'm not too certain. If Ozzie is gone, all sorts of blame will be heaped on him.

[Texsox]

Seriously, if you were the owner of the White Sox, and concerned with the franchise going forward, why would you take YET ANOTHER chance that Walker can turn around Beckham, Rios and Dunn?

 

Don't you have to first find out if another coach can get something out of them before you totally write off the equivalent of a $100 million investment?

 

Let's put it another way. You have just paid an expensive KAPLAN SAT/ACT tutor to increase your child's score and they've actually regressed in the two exams since their original score of 27. The second exam and third exam showed results of 25 and then 26. You heard another student (this is the Adam Dunn of the analogy) who was in all Honors/AP classes and had a 3.75 GPA actually got a 23 after working for two months with the same tutor. Would you keep paying that tutor your hard-earned money or try another approach?

 

That would depend on who set the curriculum. If I hired the tutor and requested they do X, then I would change strategy in a hurry. I'd make a new decision based on the new strategy. Especially if another kid, much like mine, said how well the tutor helped him.

 

And I would have fired Walker about three off seasons ago.

[caulfield12]

TEX, are you legitimately arguing these points or you really just want to debate with Balta and everyone who's been trying to wear down DickAllen on the Walker question just as an intellectual exercise?

 

Jose Contreras won 17 games in a row but he lost to Paul Byrd.

 

Of course, that had nothing to do with our offense. And I know that was Dick's point, but do you have an even more implausible one?

 

 

[caulfield12]

That would depend on who set the curriculum. If I hired the tutor and requested they do X, then I would change strategy in a hurry. I'd make a new decision based on the new strategy. Especially if another kid, much like mine, said how well the tutor helped him.

 

And I would have fired Walker about three off seasons ago.

 

 

Let's just say it's the standard "Greg Walker/KAPLAN" curriculum for test (game day batting execution).

 

As you know, as a teacher, you're often more pressured to prepare the students to do better on the standardized state tests than the ACT/SAT.

 

I actually witnessed this firsthand myself in Kansas City. The school district spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring KAPLAN tutors into high schools where the 20-25% of juniors and seniors who took the test and had aspirations of college resulted in an average score of 13.1 on the ACT.

 

But none of the tutors could "change" or adapt from their standardized approach of just following the KAPLAN materials. They quickly realized the basic foundation in Math/English that they expected to find when they started the class simply didn't exist. In a sense, students who should have been in remediation (especially in math/science) were being asked to handle materials that would theoretically bump a low 20's ACT score into the mid or even high 20's (in a very idealistic world).

 

The students quickly became frustrated with the increasing difficulty of the material and quickly tuned the tutors out because most of them didn't even have a glimmer of hope they could afford to pay for university.

Edited September 26, 2011 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

TEX, are you legitimately arguing these points or you really just want to debate with Balta and everyone who's been trying to wear down DickAllen on the Walker question just as an intellectual exercise?

 

Jose Contreras won 17 games in a row but he lost to Paul Byrd.

 

Of course, that had nothing to do with our offense. And I know that was Dick's point, but do you have an even more implausible one?

 

We've been wondering for years and years why Walker is still around. I am trying to remember a player complaining about him. I don't know why he's still around, but I am fairly convinced that Ozzie / Walker / Kenny are not 100% or even 50% to blame for this season. Players are. I think there needs to be a shake up. I'd see if the Marlins would offer a face saving player in trade and ship Ozzie out. I'd allow K-Dubya to hire a new manager, I would let the new manager interview and hire his coaches. If he totally cleans house, his pitching coach will be in about the worse situation possible, while his new hitting coach will have the easiest. I really think he should keep Coop, but I believe that should be his choice. I also think the team should have allowed Coop to interview with other teams for a promotion.

 

 

[caulfield12]

We've been wondering for years and years why Walker is still around. I am trying to remember a player complaining about him. I don't know why he's still around, but I am fairly convinced that Ozzie / Walker / Kenny are not 100% or even 50% to blame for this season. Players are. I think there needs to be a shake up. I'd see if the Marlins would offer a face saving player in trade and ship Ozzie out. I'd allow K-Dubya to hire a new manager, I would let the new manager interview and hire his coaches. If he totally cleans house, his pitching coach will be in about the worse situation possible, while his new hitting coach will have the easiest. I really think he should keep Coop, but I believe that should be his choice. I also think the team should have allowed Coop to interview with other teams for a promotion.

 

 

Fair enough. If Cooper really believes 1) he has a legit chance to manage the Sox or another team or 2) that he should go with Ozzie, then it's probably best to start over, especially if they don't keep Buehrle.

 

And it's not like Mark needs a lot of time with Cooper, anyway.

 

As far as the NEW pitching coach having a bad situation, it's not like he's behind the 8 ball either. Nobody would blame a new pitching coach for Peavy putting up similar numbers to 2011, they would just accept that he lost his stuff and command with the surgery and nothing a pitching coach could do will fix something that's broken.

 

If they're still here, getting 4 or below ERA's out of Floyd and Danks would be acceptable.

 

The main issues for the new coach will be Stewart, Sale (if he's being converted to a starter), Humber (once again, nobody EXPECTS him to post a sub-4.00 ERA again....or at least MOST don't) and maintenance with Santos to make sure he doesn't regress.

 

Obviously, Cooper's yet to find the magic "flip/switch" to get more consistency out of Stewart. Outside of beating up the Twins' AAA roster, he hasn't done much to bolster confidence in him as a rotation member going forward.

 

Which leaves Sale and Santos. If they slip up, he might be blamed. But there are lots of baseball people who aren't convinced that Chris will make it as a starter long-term. And if Santos fails, he'll be called a "one hit wonder" like Takatsu who the league figured out. Although obviously Sergio has an elite slider and a plus fastball to go with it.

 

 

[SI1020]

Let's just say it's the standard "Greg Walker/KAPLAN" curriculum for test (game day batting execution).

 

As you know, as a teacher, you're often more pressured to prepare the students to do better on the standardized state tests than the ACT/SAT.

 

I actually witnessed this firsthand myself in Kansas City. The school district spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring KAPLAN tutors into high schools where the 20-25% of juniors and seniors who took the test and had aspirations of college resulted in an average score of 13.1 on the ACT.

But none of the tutors could "change" or adapt from their standardized approach of just following the KAPLAN materials. They quickly realized the basic foundation in Math/English that they expected to find when they started the class simply didn't exist. In a sense, students who should have been in remediation (especially in math/science) were being asked to handle materials that would theoretically bump a low 20's ACT score into the mid or even high 20's (in a very idealistic world).

 

The students quickly became frustrated with the increasing difficulty of the material and quickly tuned the tutors out because most of them didn't even have a glimmer of hope they could afford to pay for university.

Were the scores really that bad? That's a composite slightly above the 6th percentile.

 

[caulfield12]

Yeah, just check out the scores for Northeast High School, Southeast and Paseo Academy.

 

Paseo's actually the "much" better of the 3, and their average score must be closer to 15 or 16. Unless your kid is in Lincoln College Prep school, you simply don't have your kid in any Kansas City MO public high school.

[Milkman delivers]

And I'll agree with you again. If all that played for him came out, that would be a different thing. Hell, if 3/4 came out, I'd probably accept that. How about you? Three-fourth enough?

 

I dunno, a substantial amount. One or two guys making a passing reference doesn't do it for me.

[Milkman delivers]

Seriously, if you were the owner of the White Sox, and concerned with the franchise going forward, why would you take YET ANOTHER chance that Walker can turn around Beckham, Rios and Dunn?

 

Don't you have to first find out if another coach can get something out of them before you totally write off the equivalent of a $100 million investment?

 

Let's put it another way. You have just paid an expensive KAPLAN SAT/ACT tutor to increase your child's score and they've actually regressed in the two exams since their original score of 27. The second exam and third exam showed results of 25 and then 26. You heard another student (this is the Adam Dunn of the analogy) who was in all Honors/AP classes and had a 3.75 GPA actually got a 23 after working for two months with the same tutor. Would you keep paying that tutor your hard-earned money or try another approach?

 

Based on a FULL THREE SEASONS of "failing" results, besides Paul Konerko, what strong support exists for Walker besides saying Rudy Jaramillo and Leo Mazzone failed with the Cubs and Orioles...and that change just for change's sake won't make bad hitters miraculously better?

 

I like this post.

[Texsox]

Fair enough. If Cooper really believes 1) he has a legit chance to manage the Sox or another team or 2) that he should go with Ozzie, then it's probably best to start over, especially if they don't keep Buehrle.

 

And it's not like Mark needs a lot of time with Cooper, anyway.

 

As far as the NEW pitching coach having a bad situation, it's not like he's behind the 8 ball either. Nobody would blame a new pitching coach for Peavy putting up similar numbers to 2011, they would just accept that he lost his stuff and command with the surgery and nothing a pitching coach could do will fix something that's broken.

 

If they're still here, getting 4 or below ERA's out of Floyd and Danks would be acceptable.

 

The main issues for the new coach will be Stewart, Sale (if he's being converted to a starter), Humber (once again, nobody EXPECTS him to post a sub-4.00 ERA again....or at least MOST don't) and maintenance with Santos to make sure he doesn't regress.

 

Obviously, Cooper's yet to find the magic "flip/switch" to get more consistency out of Stewart. Outside of beating up the Twins' AAA roster, he hasn't done much to bolster confidence in him as a rotation member going forward.

 

Which leaves Sale and Santos. If they slip up, he might be blamed. But there are lots of baseball people who aren't convinced that Chris will make it as a starter long-term. And if Santos fails, he'll be called a "one hit wonder" like Takatsu who the league figured out. Although obviously Sergio has an elite slider and a plus fastball to go with it.

 

Following the guy who walked on water and whom fans patented the phrase "Coop will fix 'em" will not be easy. Anything bad will be their fault, anything good will be left over from Coop. Plus, the new manager and/or GM will be blamed for Cooper leaving.