a "successful season" in the major leagues

[Rowand44]

I think the playoff structure is perfect as it is. Adding more teams to the postseason would be pathetic.

This

 

Agreed. And success is relative to the team. It's not a tough concept to understand.

This

[Rowand44]

No, they had huge expectations. Only reason for pessimism is if starting pitching was fatigued from previous season. Just a wasted year for them with Votto one year closer to being a FA.

I think there was a decent split on Cinci. I know I was expecting down years from them and Texas(whoops).

[Balta1701]

I think there was a decent split on Cinci. I know I was expecting down years from them and Texas(whoops).

Put it this way...even if there was some reason to doubt on both of those...both of those teams had the goal of being back where they were last year, or better.

 

Texas has basically achieved that goal. Cinci has failed.

[Rowand44]

Put it this way...even if there was some reason to doubt on both of those...both of those teams had the goal of being back where they were last year, or better.

 

Texas has basically achieved that goal. Cinci has failed.

That I absolutely agree with.

[Balta1701]

That I absolutely agree with.

Another way to look at it then...

 

If you want to judge a successful season...what were the (honest) expectations at the beginning of the season?

 

If a team is expected to run away with the league and barely scrapes by to the wild card, that's not a success unless things turn in the playoffs.

 

If a team is expected to fall back towards .500 and challenges for the wild card, that's a success.

 

If a team is expected to have a good shot at the division and finishes below .500, that's a failure, whether its' because of a pitcher getting hurt or Adam Dunn.

 

If a team is hoping to develop guys who can compete in 3-4 years, and they get those guys playing time in the bigs, none of them obviously bust, none of them get hurt, that can be a success but its hard to judge until you know for certain that the guys haven't busted.

[jenksycat]

I'd like to see a 1 or 3 game "wild card playoff"

 

I don't know how you could argue that a 1/3 game series between Boston and TB at the end of the regular season would be a bad thing. Then the wild card team actually has a disadvantage going into the playoffs like they should.

[Balta1701]

I'd like to see a 1 or 3 game "wild card playoff"

 

I don't know how you could argue that a 1/3 game series between Boston and TB at the end of the regular season would be a bad thing. Then the wild card team actually has a disadvantage going into the playoffs like they should.

Ditto for the Braves/Cardinals or Giants at this point. This season...a short WC series would look good.

[Milkman delivers]

Put it this way...even if there was some reason to doubt on both of those...both of those teams had the goal of being back where they were last year, or better.

 

Texas has basically achieved that goal. Cinci has failed.

 

Agreed for the most part. But if people stood back and expected a regression from the pitching staff, they might have expected not to make the playoffs. I'm not sure what they thought, but they've about matched my expectations for them in 2011.

[Milkman delivers]

I'd like to see a 1 or 3 game "wild card playoff"

 

I don't know how you could argue that a 1/3 game series between Boston and TB at the end of the regular season would be a bad thing. Then the wild card team actually has a disadvantage going into the playoffs like they should.

 

I can get down with that.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Playoffs are fine as is, IMO. Don't touch them. I'm all for realignment. Making the playoffs in baseball is an 'accomplishment.' As where making it in other sports is more like, 'Well, somebody had to occupy these spots.'

[Milkman delivers]

Playoffs are fine as is, IMO. Don't touch them. I'm all for realignment. Making the playoffs in baseball is an 'accomplishment.' As where making it in other sports is more like, 'Well, somebody had to occupy these spots.'

 

I agree, but the Wild Card play-in wouldn't really be adding another team to the playoffs. It'd make two teams work a little harder to get there, and put them at a disadvantage that they deserve for having to get in via the Wild Card.

[jenksycat]

I agree, but the Wild Card play-in wouldn't really be adding another team to the playoffs. It'd make two teams work a little harder to get there, and put them at a disadvantage that they deserve for having to get in via the Wild Card.

 

Exactly. As it is now, the Wild Card is a benefit really, you don't have to play the Yankees.

 

If the Tigers or something scratched away next year and won the WC, they should be punished for being the "worst" playoff team by having to burn Verlander in in a play-in game.

[knightni]

Making the playoffs = successful if you haven't been in them the year prior.

 

If you were in them the year prior, then improving on that performance = successful.

[greg775]

I really think baseball sucks in one way: teams play divisional teams way too many times.

This was done for ONE reason only: Yankees-Red Sox.

Really really is awful.

 

And as a White Sox fan it really bothers me because as much as you guys disagree with me on this, I truly feel the other teams in our division really get "alert" when we play them. I'd say extra fired up when they play the Sox, but it's not like it's a rah-rah sport. I just think our divisional foes are on top of their games WAY MORE when they play us than when they play the others in our division.

 

Why?? Chicago is by far the best and biggest city in our division. We are the most recent to win a WS in our division.

I HATE playing the teams in our division so many times.

Edited September 22, 2011 by greg775

[Leonard Zelig]

Exactly. As it is now, the Wild Card is a benefit really, you don't have to play the Yankees.

 

If the Tigers or something scratched away next year and won the WC, they should be punished for being the "worst" playoff team by having to burn Verlander in in a play-in game.

 

Somewhat surprisingly, the Yankees have only won that division once in the 4 seasons before this one. They were the wild card twice and once failed to make the playoffs.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Leonard Zelig

[caulfield12]

How about teams that had blatantly unsuccessful seasons?

 

- White Sox

- Cubs

- Twins

- Orioles

- Rockies

- Padres

- A's

- Mariners

- Mets

- Astros

- Reds

 

Of this list, I'd say the two Chicago teams, Reds and Twins had the worst seasons with regards to big picture

 

 

And Rockies...

 

Not to mention the Dodgers (off-field and on-field), especially compared to the Torre years

[Milkman delivers]

I really think baseball sucks in one way: teams play divisional teams way too many times.

This was done for ONE reason only: Yankees-Red Sox.

Really really is awful.

 

And as a White Sox fan it really bothers me because as much as you guys disagree with me on this, I truly feel the other teams in our division really get "alert" when we play them. I'd say extra fired up when they play the Sox, but it's not like it's a rah-rah sport. I just think our divisional foes are on top of their games WAY MORE when they play us than when they play the others in our division.

 

Why?? Chicago is by far the best and biggest city in our division. We are the most recent to win a WS in our division.

I HATE playing the teams in our division so many times.

 

Absolutely f***ing absurd.

[caulfield12]

Greg, the MAIN problem SINCE 2005/06 is that we've just played average against our own division...or worse.

 

With the exception of 2008.

 

Playing in a weaker division SHOULD be an advantage.

 

Except in the case of the Sox, we've actually played better against the Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers and Angels than most of the teams in our division with the exception of the Indians.

Edited September 22, 2011 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

There is some component of "results to expectations" that is factored in. I have watched with enjoyment seasons where the results were worse than this. But I feel the worse about this season than any other since the strike. I can't even think about watching the playoffs.

[hogan873]

I really think baseball sucks in one way: teams play divisional teams way too many times.

This was done for ONE reason only: Yankees-Red Sox.

Really really is awful.

 

And as a White Sox fan it really bothers me because as much as you guys disagree with me on this, I truly feel the other teams in our division really get "alert" when we play them. I'd say extra fired up when they play the Sox, but it's not like it's a rah-rah sport. I just think our divisional foes are on top of their games WAY MORE when they play us than when they play the others in our division.

 

Why?? Chicago is by far the best and biggest city in our division. We are the most recent to win a WS in our division.

I HATE playing the teams in our division so many times.

I sort of agree here, Greg. I'm not against teams playing teams within their division more often than the rest of the league. If your battling to win a division you should be able to beat the teams within your division. I don't think this was done just for the Yankees/Red Sox, also known as ESPN baseball.

 

Where I agree is that teams within the Sox's division are likely more alert (as you said) when they play the Sox. But that's probably true in any division. A team has to play hungry when they're playing a team that they are battling for a division title. The problem has been that the Sox do not play hungry. Until this year, the Sox wet their pants and curled up in a ball when they played the Twins. This year it was Detroit (although Detroit has a very good team). Hell, the Sox have a hard time beating the perennial spoiler Kansas City Royals!

 

I'm as frustrated as you seeing the Sox play so poorly within the division. But we can't go changing the schedules because of that. The Sox need to man up when they play the Twins, Tigers, Indians, and Royals. The Sox could play awesome baseball against every other division, but if they can't beat AL Central teams they don't have a great chance of making the playoffs.

[Milkman delivers]

I sort of agree here, Greg. I'm not against teams playing teams within their division more often than the rest of the league. If your battling to win a division you should be able to beat the teams within your division. I don't think this was done just for the Yankees/Red Sox, also known as ESPN baseball.

 

Where I agree is that teams within the Sox's division are likely more alert (as you said) when they play the Sox. But that's probably true in any division. A team has to play hungry when they're playing a team that they are battling for a division title. The problem has been that the Sox do not play hungry. Until this year, the Sox wet their pants and curled up in a ball when they played the Twins. This year it was Detroit (although Detroit has a very good team). Hell, the Sox have a hard time beating the perennial spoiler Kansas City Royals!

 

I'm as frustrated as you seeing the Sox play so poorly within the division. But we can't go changing the schedules because of that. The Sox need to man up when they play the Twins, Tigers, Indians, and Royals. The Sox could play awesome baseball against every other division, but if they can't beat AL Central teams they don't have a great chance of making the playoffs.

 

This whole argument is a joke (sorry, I know you didn't make it up). If the teams in our division play so much harder against us and none of their other opponents for the ridiculous reasons that greg brings up, then the opponents in the AL East would be doing the exact same thing to the Yankees and Red Sox. The issue here is that the AL East teams are far superior down the line. 4 out of 5 AL East teams are better than all but one AL Central team. Once again, this guy shows that he uses no logic whatsoever. He tries to claim that the Sox are at some sort of disadvantage when, in reality, they should be one of the best locks in baseball most years to win their division.

[Texsox]

It is better to control your own fate by playing your division as much as possible. I could do without playing the NL and add games within the AL, even more division games. I would rather lose the division by getting pummled by Detroit than the Rays or Angels (for example).

[greg775]

You guys like the fact that we play Det, Cleve and KC and Minnie so many times?

It sucks.

This divisional crap was done so the Yankees could play the Bosox every other week.

It is awful.

 

 

[hogan873]

You guys like the fact that we play Det, Cleve and KC and Minnie so many times?

It sucks.

This divisional crap was done so the Yankees could play the Bosox every other week.

It is awful.

Come on, greg, I dislike the Yankees/BoSox love as much as the next guy, but the scheduling of a lot of divisional games is not part of some vast conspracy.

[hogan873]

This whole argument is a joke (sorry, I know you didn't make it up). If the teams in our division play so much harder against us and none of their other opponents for the ridiculous reasons that greg brings up, then the opponents in the AL East would be doing the exact same thing to the Yankees and Red Sox. The issue here is that the AL East teams are far superior down the line. 4 out of 5 AL East teams are better than all but one AL Central team. Once again, this guy shows that he uses no logic whatsoever. He tries to claim that the Sox are at some sort of disadvantage when, in reality, they should be one of the best locks in baseball most years to win their division.

You're right about the Central being a weaker division. And, yes, the Sox should be at an advantage playing the likes of Detroit, KC, Cleveland, and Minnesota vs. NY, Boston, and Tampa. The only part of his argument I could get on board with is that I think teams do take those divisional games seriously. I'm not saying they don't play as hard when playing a team outside their division, but teams know they have to beat those teams in their own division. The Sox seem to choke so often, though. And that's what frustrates me.