"We have spent, over the last decade, a lot of time in first plac

[caulfield12]

Well. considering that Jackson had been with four teams in four years and had been a total enigma his whole career, was that a big surprise? Why did we have to gut our system of its two best pitching prospects for what amount to a Don Cooper project?

 

Not to get down on you, but the whole basis of defending KW on the premise that "No one would have predicted that (fill in the blank)" is complete bull s*** when all it took was some common sense to realize that many of Kenny's all-in acquisitions were doomed from the start. .

 

 

I highly doubt he's trying to defend KW.

 

Boston somehow started 4-10, went a blazing 37 games over .500 and has now matched the White Sox's 4-18 run with a 5-19 of their own.

They've given up 10 games now in the standings to the Rays. Amazing.

[southsider2k5]

Adam Dunn was a huge gamble? No, sorry. Yes, he fell off hard and it backfired, but no one, not even you, could have predicted his collapse. Peavy, when he was traded for had a minor injury. He tried to push the envelope and come back in time for three meaningless starts to prove himself to his new team. His team let him. Even with that said, he was by far the best pitcher available that any team wanted. And beginning this year, nobody was depending on Peavy. Everyone pretty much agreed that whatever you got from him was gravy. Rios, a guy I've always hated just had a good year in 2010. Nobody was counting on him being a bucket of suck either. Just to keep up his normal play. He couldn't do that.

 

Rios and Dunn were depended on and both failed miserably. I'll always give Kenny flack for Rios, but not for Peavy.

 

Stating the obvious again, the most consistent power hitting in baseball over about the last 10 years or so, until this year.

[southsider2k5]

For KW to read those quotes and look back on this stretch in terms of his brash talk after 2005....his taunting of DET for the Cabrera deal only putting them in better position to contend with us, dynasties, taking the city back and winning multiples championships, having a whole new generation of White Sox fans, etc.

 

FAIL, FAIL, FAIL, FAIL, EPIC FAIL

 

We won the division that year.

[southsider2k5]

He did. Randy was there right from the beginning denouncing that signing. But let's not stop you guys from making false generalizations.

 

His statement wasn't nearly what it has turned into in urban legend form.

 

I don't mind Dunn being the DH but I can't believe how much the Sox overpaid for him. s***.

 

When you consider that the Sox could get a much better hitter like Vlad Guerrero on a two or three year deal at $ 6-7 mil per or even Thome on a 1 year deal for $ 4-5 mil. and Thome's better at 41 than Dunn is at 31.

 

There's just no way that Dunn as a DH and not even close to being one of the best hitters in baseball or even a valuable player should command $ 14 mil. per year. Pujols will get $ 25 mil. per and if he was only a DH he would get much less and he's three times the hitter.

 

It's just a huge overpayment. And, now how do the Sox convince Konerko to take less money than Dunn when he is clearly a far better baseball player.

[southsider2k5]

I'll say it before and I'll say it again - ALL of Soxtalk is property of WhiteSoxRandy for the rest of 2011. Save the "Nobody saw Dunn being this bad' jargon. That's just splitting hairs. Of course nobody could ever predict a full-time Major League baseball player hitting .160 with two trillion Ks over the course of a season. But there were warning signs. The second-half dip last year. The spike in Ks the last couple seasons. He's never been a designated hitter. And that's obviously more of a mental hurdle than I or anybody else thought it was at the time (like the set-up man forgetting how to pitch when he has to close *Thornton*). Randy wanted no part of Dunn. And we (me included) skinned him alive.

 

He didn't see it either. He was OK with the signing, just not the dollar amount.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, it seems his argument is more about "value received" or ROI than anything.

 

That we would have been better off with 2 Vladimir Guerreros or the equivalent of 3 Jim Thome's.

 

And he would have been wrong about both Guerrero and Thome having strong seasons in 2011.

 

So to summarize, there were quite a few who thought we'd overpaid by $2-3 million, but I highly doubt anyone would have said a single thing had the signing been for $10 million per season....

[Balta1701]

His statement wasn't nearly what it has turned into in urban legend form.

Where was the line where he called him an "NL-only hitter"?

[caulfield12]

Where was the line where he called him an "NL-only hitter"?

 

 

And you really could argue that he was one of the most productive hitters in baseball for most of his career.

 

"Best"? Well, that's subjective. That's where you have your Pujols, Cabrera, Manny Ramirez (without the steroids), Frank Thomas, Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs type of names.

 

But one of the, if not THE BEST power hitter on the market, especially left-handed power, there's no doubt he was the one.

[southsider2k5]

Where was the line where he called him an "NL-only hitter"?

 

One thing I did learn going back through that thread was that Oakland also made a big push for done. So there is moneyball for you.

 

It also wasn't Randy who said that about NL only hitter

 

Not really excited about this... but if Jerry is raising the payroll, then okay it's a good signing at best.

 

Hes a purely NL hitter with horrible OF defense (granted he just moved to 1B last year) that strikes out ~33% of the time for 14M a year (4 years too O_O)

 

If this is Kenny's only "big" signing AND hes lets Konerko walk then I am disappoint.

Would rather have Konerko at 28/2 than Dunn at 56/4...

 

Might as well sign a couple more type As as the 23rd pick is gone.

 

[Texsox]

But we're amateurs, Kenny is paid to know better.

[Milkman delivers]

Well, someone still said it. It's not like no one saw a disappointing season coming from him. I certainly didn't see it coming, but some apparently did.

[jenksycat]

Well, someone still said it. It's not like no one saw a disappointing season coming from him. I certainly didn't see it coming, but some apparently did.

 

I attribute that more to dumb-luck from people who just plain disliked Dunn...not anyone being intelligent about it.

[Milkman delivers]

I attribute that more to dumb-luck from people who just plain disliked Dunn...not anyone being intelligent about it.

 

That may very well be the case, but I can't take that away from him. It'd be akin to being a sore loser. "That was a lucky shot." Either way, the other person won.

 

Some would say that it's revisionist history to go back and say that it was obvious that Dunn would suck, and it is. But, it's also revisionist to say that nobody saw this coming because some people did. Just because we're in the vast majority and we still can't explain it doesn't give us the right to take that away from someone else.

[southsider2k5]

That may very well be the case, but I can't take that away from him. It'd be akin to being a sore loser. "That was a lucky shot." Either way, the other person won.

 

Some would say that it's revisionist history to go back and say that it was obvious that Dunn would suck, and it is. But, it's also revisionist to say that nobody saw this coming because some people did. Just because we're in the vast majority and we still can't explain it doesn't give us the right to take that away from someone else.

 

No one saw THIS happening. Even the couple of people who thought we paid too much thought Dunn would be more than adequate at DH.

[klaus kinski]

Peavy and Rios were big gambles. As unlucky as Williams was with Dunn, nobody expected Konerko to have the year he had either.

 

Edwin Jackson and Swisher were gambles too.

 

And lots of teams spend time in first place, including the Cubs.

[Marty34]

Where's my props for calling this a mediocre team before the season started? This, in the face of many 90-win predictions on the board.

[Quin]

Where's my props for calling this a mediocre team before the season started? This, in the face of many 90-win predictions on the board.

 

Honestly, despite your join date, I've never seen you post before the past month.

 

So, no props for you!

 

 

[Marty34]

Honestly, despite your join date, I've never seen you post before the past month.

 

So, no props for you!

 

 

On March 27, 2011 I wrote:

 

I just think this team has a better chance of finishing below .500 than it does winning a divisional playoff series. Their payroll number should provide a better downside.

 

You replied to me Quinarvy!!

[LVSoxFan]

This wins my award for Worst. Rationalization. Ever. Seriously.

 

Hey, we've been in first place a lot? So WHAT?

 

I often wonder if Minny's manager is on the hot seat because they always win the division then get smooshed in the playoffs. But hell at least they make it THAT far.

 

But here we have our main decision-maker declaring that he's winning, duh, because the team that hasn't made the playoffs in three years sorta/kinda/maybe looked like they could have depending on what part of the season we're talking about?

 

*facepalm*

 

BTW I'm sure most of you recall that KW in 2005 was totally clear in what the goal was: win the division. Win, that, and take everything after as it comes.

 

Now we have this same guy saying THIS is his standard?

 

He should be released for this comment alone. He's lost it. If he ever had it.

[Quin]

On March 27, 2011 I wrote:

 

 

 

You replied to me Quinarvy!!

Well s***, I retract the soup nazi.

 

Props.

[southsider2k5]

Well s***, I retract the soup nazi.

 

Props.

 

Adam Dunn will have one of the worst offensive years in major league baseball history.

 

[greg775]

Where's my props for calling this a mediocre team before the season started? This, in the face of many 90-win predictions on the board.

 

Good call, Marty.

The way we are finishing the season with a 4-11 record I think in our last 15, don't you agree we will lose 90-95 games next year w/out changes?

This team is really really bad on paper.

[LVSoxFan]

That's why I have such doomsday feeling about 2012 that I can't remember having before.

 

I feel like I've been watching the same result for three years but this time it seems to be a foregone result for next year because we can't get rid of Rios or Dunn. And here we have KW drinking some home-brewed Koolaid.

 

So even the wait-till-next-year optimism that usually sets in right about now is already snuffed.

Edited September 26, 2011 by LVSoxFan

[jenksycat]

That's why I have such doomsday feeling about 2012 that I can't remember having before.

 

I feel like I've been watching the same result for three years but this time it seems to be a foregone result for next year because we can't get rid of Rios or Dunn. And here we have KW drinking some home-brewed Koolaid.

 

So even the wait-till-next-year optimism that usually sets in right about now is already snuffed.

 

If you think next year could be any worse then you have to believe that:

 

Morel will never hit

Beckham will never hit again

Dunn will never go back to the form from the last 8 years

Rios will never hit again

Peavy will never sniff his old SD days

De Aza/Vicedo will be worse than Pierre

 

Now I don't see all those things as turning around, but I can't imagine them ALL failing again. 1 or 2 of those options going the other way and its a different season really.

 

[Balta1701]

If you think next year could be any worse then you have to believe that:

 

Morel will never hit

Beckham will never hit again

Dunn will never go back to the form from the last 8 years

Rios will never hit again

Peavy will never sniff his old SD days

De Aza/Vicedo will be worse than Pierre

 

Now I don't see all those things as turning around, but I can't imagine them ALL failing again. 1 or 2 of those options going the other way and its a different season really.

There's still some trouble though...you also can believe that Paul Konerko might finally start showing his age, AJ Pierzynski could have a more 2010 like season, Mark Buehrle could either not return or not have the caliber of season he just had, John Danks and Carlos Quentin could be traded, Phil Humber might not carry this team for 2 months, Santos could fail to repeat his success this year.

 

Not all of those will happen, but a number of them are somewhat likely.