Ozzie Guillen Released from Contract

[T R U]

I don't think it's fair to equate not getting an extension after this season to not being welcome here.

 

Again, not getting offered an extension after this season and being fired are two very different things.

 

EXACTLY!

 

Thats what I am saying, I think that they told him he wasn't going to extended and even went a little further that he might not even be brought back and Ozzie got his feelings hurt..

 

This is just my theory, im not trying to argue this is what went down..

[Quin]

Also, why do this with two games left in the season? To me, it reeks of "Oh, you don't want me here? Then im taking my ball and going home"

 

No, he wasn't getting the raise because JR didn't think he deserved it and he wasn't getting KW fired because JR wanted them both back.

 

[caulfield12]

So KW just has a "fill-in-the-blank" contract for at least two years, possibly three?

 

Wish things would be a bit more defined with his situation than what we have now.

[iamshack]

So KW just has a "fill-in-the-blank" contract for at least two years, possibly three?

 

Wish things would be a bit more defined with his situation than what we have now.

He has a fill in the blank contract every year.

[caulfield12]

But supposedly it was said SOMEWHERE that he would get at least 2 seasons to clean this mess up...yes?

[iamshack]

But supposedly it was said SOMEWHERE that he would get at least 2 seasons to clean this mess up...yes?

I think he actually implied that himself, yes.

[southsider2k5]

I read something today comparing Ozzie to Ditka, and it was eerily similar. They also said they wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie's tenure in Miami goes a lot like Ditka's in New Orleans.

 

What's also peculiar is the Marlins obviously tampered. The fact that the Sox don't call them out on this just shows how much they really care Ozzie is gone.

 

Also read where Ozzie's contract is 4 years $10 million. Not bad, but not the $4 million a year many reported. Still its a $700k raise from 2011. If I got a $700k raise, I'd be pretty happy about it.

 

They got rid of Ozzie, they don't have to pay him, and they got a couple of B level prospects back. They are about has happy as you can possibly be when getting rid of your manager.

[scenario]

Not sure I understand all the whining about Ozzie quitting two days before the end of a lost season.

 

Anybody who has a one year contract and unsure future on one hand... and a multi-year guaranteed job offer dangled in front of them on the other... is going to discuss it with their current boss.

 

You don't miss out on an opportunity like that.

 

What's the old adage? The best time to look for a new job is when you have a job.

 

Ozzie does it and he's a scumbag who quit on his team.

 

GMAFB.

 

Anyone who says they wouldn't do the same thing given the same circumstances is lying.

Edited September 29, 2011 by scenario

[southsider2k5]

How is that even possible? They are all KW's players.. Ozzie didnt do anything to make Adam Dunn flop, Jake Peavy fall apart, and Rios to not give a s***.. there was nothing that could be done about that..

 

Yes, who saw it coming.. I know.. However, they were still moves that didnt work out at all.. I dont think I need to bring up Dan Hudson.. KW should have been relieved of his Gm duties just as much as Ozzie should have been relieved of his manager duties.. I dont see what changes with this team now..

 

And they all played for the exact same boss. And please don't try to tell me that people's motivation to work under certain bosses isn't different than others. We have seen it multiple times here were guys were shipped off because of Ozzie, and nothing else.

[southsider2k5]

Not sure I understand all the whining about Ozzie quitting two days before the end of a lost season.

 

Anybody who has a one year contract and unsure future on one hand... and a multi-year guaranteed job offer dangled in front of them on the other... is going to discuss it with their current boss.

 

You don't miss out on an opportunity like that.

 

What's the old adage? The best time to look for a new job is when you have a job.

 

Ozzie does it and he's a scumbag who quit on his team.

 

GMAFB.

 

Anyone who says they wouldn't do the same thing given the same circumstances is lying.

 

Plenty of managers have managed through the last year of their contracts if they wanted to stay somewhere. Hell Yankees managers do it all of the time. I would be willing to bet while many discuss extensions, most don't get in and demand them, let alone demand that their boss be fired by his bosses. And yes, there is a big difference between quitting today and two days ago. Ozzie quit on a team during their season.

[Balta1701]

But supposedly it was said SOMEWHERE that he would get at least 2 seasons to clean this mess up...yes?

If you're bringing him back with the intent of cleaning up, you can't really fire him because of a losing record next season. You could fire him if you spent another $135 million on his advice and wound up with a losing record, but if you're genuinely tearing some of the mess down and reconstructing it, you have to give that time to happen.

[Balta1701]

They got rid of Ozzie, they don't have to pay him, and they got a couple of B level prospects back. They are about has happy as you can possibly be when getting rid of your manager.

More specifically...there's probably some level of a handshake agreement not to pursue tampering charges in exchange for those 2 minor leaguers. It almost has to be explicit, because otherwise the Sox could take the minor leaguers and then still pursue the charge.

[Balta1701]

A four year deal? I was mocked for suggesting he'd get one.

That's the last time I'll mention it, but since nobody congratulated me so I had to take credit myself since a lot of people on here think I am a moron who does not know baseball at all.

You are correct. I thought you were wrong on the 4 year deal and that's what the Marlins gave him. Congrats.

[Balta1701]

I have another question for you guys.

 

Seriously, Atlanta and Boston did not make the playoffs after looking like they were locks.

They blew it.

Their fans bases must be furious, FURIOUS.

 

So should their managers be fired??? Answer this please.

Should Boston and Atlanta fire their managers. Those were EPIC failures in not making the playoffs.

 

My point so many fan bases want to fire their managers.

I think Ozzie is a good manager.

I don't think Atlanta's guy should be fired. First year manager, young team, team simply refused to make the moves they needed to be competitive down the stretch (3rd worst offense in the NL in September).

 

Francona...I think he's gone for this.

[nitetrain8601]

Should have called their bluff. Then if they did hire Valentine, fired Ozzie later that same day.

 

Would have cost them a few million, but it might have been worth it

 

I agree.

 

that has just as much to do with the type of players that are on this team, like Konerko.. hes in a leadership position on this team and he just has an easy going attitude like much of what weve seen.. its too laid back, which is a big problem with our late season failures

 

And this is what I would've done. Honestly, they weren't going to hire anyone other than Ozzie until December if Ozzie didn't become available.

 

So you wanted the wsox to commit blackmail to get Logan Morrison?

 

As should every Sox fan. Literally, just hold onto him until they give up Morrison. I'm sure, they eventually would've. The Sox were holding all the cards, but JR and KW failed miserably IMHO. May not be true, but that's what I feel.

 

1.) Good question. The problem is most of the stuff he says doesn't ever bother me because I think he is like a comedian, he puts on a show for the media. That money thing to me was like a stand up comedy act.

 

I swear, whenever I listen to interviews, like 17 full minutes on mlb.com I hear a gracious Ozzie. What would he have to say? Well, it'd have to be in a setting where I believe he means what he says instead of is putting on a comedy act. I guess if he said in a 1-1 interview with ESPN that he hates all his players including Mark and Konerko and thinks all Chicago fans are full of s*** I guess I would start to hate him.

 

So the fact that he said he doesn't care about the World Series rings because they're not money and they're not important to him didn't bother you. He said that with a serious face. Or how about with ESPN in his face, in a serious manner saying he lost the passion for awhile? None of that bothered you at all? Or how about when in his into press conference here, he talked about this being the last jersey he ever wanted to put on, but then in his Marlins press conference saying he was plotting for a few years to get to Miami?

 

I must say, if that's the case, it seems to me that you're a fan of the name on the back of the jersey, and not the front. Ironic considering Ozzie wants you to be the exact opposite.

 

2.) OK I am in Jerry's shoes. Fair question.

I think I stated in a few other threads weeks ago that if Ozzie got canned even he would think he deserved to be canned. And in one interview I saw he said indeed he didn't deserve to be here next year. He said, 'I didn't earn it," or something like that.

But to answer your question ... If I am in Jerry's shoes, because I told the two of them they had to get along, they had to behave, they had to work together ... and because the two did not work together, I would replace both of them. They did not make it work. They blew it. And deep down they would know they both deserved to be fired.

Now you imply that it would be easy for Jerry to keep Kenny because he offered to step down and Ozzie kept asking for more years and a raise.

I might argue that he did it through the media and was "Ozzie being Ozzie."

If in a 1-1 meeting with me, Jerry, Ozzie was that belligerent and/or cocky about getting a raise and more years, then yes I would fire him. But his media persona is quite different I am assuming than when he meets with Jerry.

 

The bottom line is I know Ozzie deserved to get fired. But I think KW did too because of the fact the two of them COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT work together.

I think both should be out the door.

 

My desire to keep Ozzie as you all know stems from the fact I think he learned on the job here and is still young and will have a Hall of Fame career as a manager. I hate the fact he learned on the job here and now will be managing elsewhere. He got one title here, I think he'd have gotten more.

 

Did he deserve to get fired? Yes. This year's April/May was inexcusable (even with Dunn n Rios) but KW also should be gone.

 

If you have any other specific questions I will answer them as well.

 

Fair enough on that end.

[southsider2k5]

More specifically...there's probably some level of a handshake agreement not to pursue tampering charges in exchange for those 2 minor leaguers. It almost has to be explicit, because otherwise the Sox could take the minor leaguers and then still pursue the charge.

 

The discussions started last year, so the feelings are mutual.

[bmags]

I don't think Atlanta's guy should be fired. First year manager, young team, team simply refused to make the moves they needed to be competitive down the stretch (3rd worst offense in the NL in September).

 

Francona...I think he's gone for this.

 

I think he's gone too, but all of his pitchers were equally awful in september.

[Balta1701]

I think he's gone too, but all of his pitchers were equally awful in september.

What was the usage of Beckett/Lester et al. like earlier in the year? Were they pushed particularly hard to say, cover up for Lackey's weakness?

[Kyyle23]

What was the usage of Beckett/Lester et al. like earlier in the year? Were they pushed particularly hard to say, cover up for Lackey's weakness?

 

It wasnt just Lackeys weakness in the beginning of the season. What was their start? 5-17? Besides Lackeys weakness, you have Bucholz and Daisuke going down.

 

It was similar to the White Sox in 2010. They went on an amazing run to get past a brutal start, but in the end, they could not sustain it and it caught up with them. Just one month later in the season

[Milkman delivers]

You are correct. I thought you were wrong on the 4 year deal and that's what the Marlins gave him. Congrats.

 

Indeed, he was correct about the 4-year deal. I must admit, though, that I never really gave it much thought. They could have given him a 1-year deal or 10, we all knew he was going to Miami.

 

So the fact that he said he doesn't care about the World Series rings because they're not money and they're not important to him didn't bother you. He said that with a serious face. Or how about with ESPN in his face, in a serious manner saying he lost the passion for awhile? None of that bothered you at all? Or how about when in his into press conference here, he talked about this being the last jersey he ever wanted to put on, but then in his Marlins press conference saying he was plotting for a few years to get to Miami?

 

I must say, if that's the case, it seems to me that you're a fan of the name on the back of the jersey, and not the front. Ironic considering Ozzie wants you to be the exact opposite.

 

Well put. Pretty much what anyone needs to know.

[southsider2k5]

Potential best news of the day

 

cst_Cowley cst_Cowley

And big news from Mr. Handsome ... I will not be writing another Ozzie column for at least three more weeks, that's a guarantee.

 

[RockRaines]

Potential best news of the day

 

cst_Cowley cst_Cowley

And big news from Mr. Handsome ... I will not be writing another Ozzie column for at least three more weeks, that's a guarantee.

He's the only one in todays paper that wrote a column on Ozzie and it was just rehashing his other pieces. I understand he is sad that he's back to being an outcast on the Sox beat, but jeez dude.

[southsider2k5]

He's the only one in todays paper that wrote a column on Ozzie and it was just rehashing his other pieces. I understand he is sad that he's back to being an outcast on the Sox beat, but jeez dude.

 

I'm just hoping this doesn't mean 3 weeks of anti-Kenny crap instead.

[Marty34]

I'm just hoping this doesn't mean 3 weeks of anti-Kenny crap instead.

 

Yes. Let's not hear anything negative about the GM of perhaps the most dysfunctional outfit in MLB.

[southsider2k5]

Yes. Let's not hear anything negative about the GM of perhaps the most dysfunctional outfit in MLB.

 

The dysfunction is going to fix itself now the the root cause of it is gone. It would be different if he were actually contributing something, but worrying about Kenny's dating life? That is the type of crap you want to hear more of? Blah, its all yours.