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Ozzie Guillen Appreciation Thread


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"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall". -Proverbs 16:18

 

I think that best sums up what led to the final fate of Ozzie Guillen today, as well as some of the issues Kenny Williams has had, and what has led to the failures of our organization recently. "This town ain't big enough for the two of us" was a saying invented with guys like the current versions of Kenny and Ozzie in mind.

 

I think Ozzie will do a good job in Miami, and as much as I think Kenny Williams should be fired, he won't. And while I feel this organization can't get back to where it needs to until Kenny is also gone, I think Ozzie being gone will do a lot of good for him. It's a shame the egos and pride of the two men got in the way of the team recently, because I think they are both still capable of doing a good job.

 

I'll miss Ozzie. He had to go, but I'll miss him. My first Sox memories involved him at shortstop, he was the bleepity bleep manager for our first World Champion in almost 9 decades, and his craziness kept things interesting. But this move had to happen. I wish the other move that has to happen would happen now as well. But, since it's not, I'll just hope this gives KW's career with us a second wind.

Edited by whitesoxfan101
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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 07:35 AM)
"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall". -Proverbs 16:18

 

I think that best sums up what led to the final fate of Ozzie Guillen today, as well as some of the issues Kenny Williams has had, and what has led to the failures of our organization recently. "This town ain't big enough for the two of us" was a saying invented with guys like the current versions of Kenny and Ozzie in mind.

 

I think Ozzie will do a good job in Miami, and as much as I think Kenny Williams should be fired, he won't. And while I feel this organization can't get back to where it needs to until Kenny is also gone, I think Ozzie being gone will do a lot of good for him. It's a shame the egos and pride of the two men got in the way of the team recently, because I think they are both still capable of doing a good job.

 

I'll miss Ozzie. He had to go, but I'll miss him. My first Sox memories involved him at shortstop, he was the bleepity bleep manager for our first World Champion in almost 9 decades, and his craziness kept things interesting. But this move had to happen. I wish the other move that has to happen would happen now as well. But, since it's not, I'll just hope this gives KW's career with us a second wind.

 

That's an excellent take.

I respect your comments about KW. I couldn't agree more.

If Sox can't resign Mark, that should be the death knoll for KW with this franchise.

Unacceptable to ruin the pay structure of the team where you can't pay a legend.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 02:43 AM)
That's an excellent take.

I respect your comments about KW. I couldn't agree more.

If Sox can't resign Mark, that should be the death knoll for KW with this franchise.

Unacceptable to ruin the pay structure of the team where you can't pay a legend.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the death knell for KW should be the Rios and Peavy moves. You can't do things like that, miss the playoffs, and keep your job as GM.

 

And I'm going to be in full attack dog mode on KW from now on. He's next on the s*** list of people that really have no business being here anymore.

Edited by whitesoxfan101
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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 08:50 AM)
As far as I'm concerned, the death knell for KW should be the Rios and Peavy moves. You can't do things like that, miss the playoffs, and keep your job as GM.

 

And I'm going to be in full attack dog mode on KW from now on. He's next on the s*** list of people that really have no business being here anymore.

 

Very true. Should be interesting to see how he rebuilds the team.

He won the war vs. Ozzie now ...good luck turning this bunch into a winner, KW, considering payroll, and a pitching staff that consists of Floyd, Danks, Humber and Stewart and ?. That is a last place pitching staff. The bullpen is very unreliable. The new manager is just gonna get FRIED on here, cause we know how this board gets upset when the wrong choice is made. And the Sox have a bunch of relievers (with exception of Sale n Sergio) who fail a lot. And as great as Sergio is, he blew what, six saves? That's not exactly phenomenal, though I do like him n his potential.

As far as the offense? Still very very slow with power hitters that have lost the home run touch.

Rios? LOL.

Dunn? Good luck skipper.

Beckham? One of the worst offensive 2B in the game right now.

AJ? Slow n can't throw.

YIKES.

Edited by greg775
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QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 01:57 AM)
Very true. Should be interesting to see how he rebuilds the team.

He won the war vs. Ozzie now ...good luck turning this bunch into a winner, KW, considering payroll, and a pitching staff that consists of Floyd, Danks, Humber and Stewart and ?. That is a last place pitching staff. The bullpen is very unreliable. The new manager is just gonna get FRIED on here, cause we know how this board gets upset when the wrong choice is made. And the Sox have a bunch of relievers (with exception of Sale n Sergio) who fail a lot. And as great as Sergio is, he blew what, six saves? That's not exactly phenomenal, though I do like him n his potential.

 

 

If Sale becomes a frontline starter, the rotation will be just fine.

 

One thing that hasn't been brought up today is what will happen with Rick Hahn now.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 02:43 AM)
That's an excellent take.

I respect your comments about KW. I couldn't agree more.

If Sox can't resign Mark, that should be the death knoll for KW with this franchise.

Unacceptable to ruin the pay structure of the team where you can't pay a legend.

 

Well, apparently Mark was sick of Ozzie's s*** so, yeah.

 

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 02:57 AM)
Very true. Should be interesting to see how he rebuilds the team.

He won the war vs. Ozzie now ...good luck turning this bunch into a winner, KW, considering payroll, and a pitching staff that consists of Floyd, Danks, Humber and Stewart and ?. That is a last place pitching staff. The bullpen is very unreliable. The new manager is just gonna get FRIED on here, cause we know how this board gets upset when the wrong choice is made. And the Sox have a bunch of relievers (with exception of Sale n Sergio) who fail a lot. And as great as Sergio is, he blew what, six saves? That's not exactly phenomenal, though I do like him n his potential.

As far as the offense? Still very very slow with power hitters that have lost the home run touch.

Rios? LOL.

Dunn? Good luck skipper.

Beckham? One of the worst offensive 2B in the game right now.

AJ? Slow n can't throw.

YIKES.

 

Rios? LOL. He was almost an All-Star last year. We all saw this coming.

Dunn? Ahahaha. Super-consistent sluggers always have historic fall offs.

Beckham? You're right. We should have given up on him after the 0-22 or whatever it was.

AJ? You know that s*** is Ozzie.

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QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 01:22 AM)
It was one of the most dominating post seasons in MLB history.

 

Does that buy you wins in 2012? I didn't say it meant absolutely nothing, the accomplishment will lie in the history books forever. But the objective of the front office is to produce a team that will win next year. Whatever has happened before should be irrelevant in that respect.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 03:05 AM)
Follow the thread. Ozzie lovers didn't turn it to the darkside.

 

This is the third post of the thread...

 

Ozzie is the best Manager this franchise has had in the last 50 years. And this is the worst day of any White Sox Fans life...

 

Yeah, you tell me what the worst day of my fandom is supposed to be...

 

Are you telling me this is worse than getting swept in the ALDS in 2000? Is this worse than nearly losing the division to the Twins in 08? Is this worse than losing the Rays in the ALDS in 08? I mean speak for yourself not for everybody like you're the majority of the consensus. Because you're clearly not.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 03:05 AM)
Follow the thread. Ozzie lovers didn't turn it to the darkside.

 

Who brought KW into it?

 

I'm not gonna go back and pull up quotes like last time because I'd rather not defile this thread more than it has been.

 

It was an OG Appreciation, now its a KW/Ozzie bash because Team Ozzie can't get over it.

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I hated LaMonth, Bevington, and Manuel. Ozzie was different and fresh. Maybe he had to go but I will miss him because we will hire some vanilla manager who is dull.

 

Not to mention a month into next season everyone will turn on them after one bad decision. Rinse, wash, repeat.

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The end of an era. Ozzie, I thought, managed great for much of his time in Chicago...he was unorthodoxed yet instinctive. He also proved he could win in Chicago. But somewhere along the line something went off the tracks.

 

It's not unlike what happened with Mike Ditka, although Ditka accomplished far less with much more than did Ozzie. Ozzie oversaw an organization that trotted out too many overpaid and overrated players, which is partly his fault of course.

 

I appreciate Ozzie's time in Chicago for what he did bring to the table, but the White Sox are very stale and the organization needs to rebuild.

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I've been a Sox fan long enough to have seen eight managers (not including the short-timers between) as a fan: Kessinger, LaRussa, Fregosi, Torborg, Lamont, Bevington, Manuel and Guillen. Guillen was...

 

--The most quotable

--The most entertaining

--The best "players'" manager

--Had the best understanding of, and coaching towards, the importance of infield defense

--Probably had a better fan-drawing effect than any of the others

--Suprisingly good at handling his starting pitchers

--And most importantly, did what no other manager could do in 88 years

 

Ozzie, you will be missed. But it was past time to go, for many reasons. So, good luck in Florida, except when you play the Sox.

 

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I am going to not take the troll bait and actually stay with the topic at hand here.

 

Ozzie Guillen has been a huge part of my life as a Sox fan. I was 9 during the magical 1983 season, and was devastated that the Sox traded Lamar Hoyt away. Of course I had no idea what Hoyt liked to do in his free time, but that is a different story. When Ozzie came to the Sox watching him play was like watching a player that I could be. He wasn't especially athletic and strong, but he was a smart player, and a guy who would use whatever advantage he could create. Watching him handle the bat, and play his position was just awesome. I'll also never forget he was the player who treated the kids who came to see him at the ballpark the best. I think I had something like half a dozen different Guillen autographs over the years.

 

As a manager he was a whole new world. Especially coming out of the Jerry Manuel era which was so boring and lacking direction. He really seemed to just excite players and get that extra something out of them. He never was an X's and O's type of guy, but few managers could get what he did out of his players for a lot of years.

 

Good luck Ozzie, hopefully you learned something in Chicago, and do better at your next stop.

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QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 03:29 AM)
The end of an era. Ozzie, I thought, managed great for much of his time in Chicago...he was unorthodoxed yet instinctive. He also proved he could win in Chicago. But somewhere along the line something went off the tracks.

 

It's not unlike what happened with Mike Ditka, although Ditka accomplished far less with much more than did Ozzie. Ozzie oversaw an organization that trotted out too many overpaid and overrated players, which is partly his fault of course.

 

I appreciate Ozzie's time in Chicago for what he did bring to the table, but the White Sox are very stale and the organization needs to rebuild.

I'm not 100% sure I agree that Ditka accomplished far less with more talent. Both guys had enough talent to win more than they did, but winning's not easy. It takes a little luck, too, and the mid-80s Bears had no luck at quarterback - the most important position.

 

That said, the comparison is excellent. Both Ditka and Ozzie got too involved in publicly squabbling with management, the media, and to some extent players - who seemed to get tired of the message. They were great, but both had to go. Unfortunately, what follows might not be better.

 

The Sox will miss Ozzie as a national lightning rod. Love him or hate him, he brought attention to the team. I wish he did it with a little more class, though. All the stuff with his sons and Kenny was embarrassing.

 

I wish Ozzie success. I believe he's a very good manager. I know referencing 2005 is tired to some Sox fans, but it's way better than talking about 1917. And Ozzie was a big part of why we've seen a World Series championship in Chicago.

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QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 06:21 AM)
He managed this season like he wanted to leave. I have a lot of great Oz memories from his days as a player and as a manager. Calling for Bobby is etched in my mind.

If I had to pick a moment, it's Ozzie turning to the crowd in Houston right after the final pitch and pointing with both hands/fingers into the audience.

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