NorthSideSox72 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 07:52 AM) They have reached that tipping point on many things. It is why people leave the city to buy gas, cigs, major purchases, houses etc. The taxes are ridiculous, and to some extent it is to support Chicago's inherent corruption. More than just taking the City of Chicagos figures at their word, I would love to be able to take apart some of the itemization's and compare them to other cities and towns around the country. I agree on cigarette taxes and some other narrow taxes of the sort, they've already stacked it too high. Which is why they need to lean towards the cutting angle more than revenue increases. Well, it's one OF the reasons why. If you want to do a comparison to other cities, that might be interesting. Problem is, when you look at NYC, Los Angeles or Chicago, it is really difficult to make good comparisons to other cities. Each of them stand alone in terms of population for the metro area, and other dynamics. For smaller cities it is easier - you can compare, say, Houston with Phoenix with Denver, they are all pretty similar in size and density. Who do you compare Chicago to? Not trying to say its impossible, just that it has some difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) On the other hand, I can be like you people and pretend I know what I'm talking about when I suggest solutions for all the City's woes...which is pretty much what all of our modern day politicians are. People that "don't know" that "pretend to know". Difference is, I'm ok with saying "I don't know how to solve this massive set of problems they've created", whereas you aren't...which makes you exactly like the people you elect. A bunch of people implementing a bunch of "solutions" that do nothing but make things even worse. If the people who actually DID know how to fix this were elected, it'd get fixed. Until then, they're just a bunch of group-think forum posters that pretend they have all the f***ing answers, when in reality...they don't...but they're too "smart" to admit it. Thought so that. And this is a forum, where I guess I can post how I want, so long as I don't call you names...so while you call it a non-existant boogie man, I call it shooting holes into the "solutions" you've thus far proposed, which have ALREADY BEEN proposed time and time again, only to fail...time and time again. Let's see, transit? Yeah, because reforming our transit system hasn't already been proposed and attempted 50 times. What else did we suggest off the list of mind numbingly stupid suggestions so far...raising more taxes of some sort? Implementing some sort of additional fees perhaps? Riiiiight...because nobody's EVER suggested THOSE things 500 times before! You're a f***ing genius, Gump! Wow. Hm, instead of getting all riled up like you did, I'll point out three small facts for you to consider... 1. I think you missed the point of the thread - it is an exercise to create discussion and illustrate that actually making budgetary decisions isn't so easy. This thread was supposed to be people showing what they'd do, and see how those topics fall out. From what I can tell, you think this is a futile effort, which makes me ask... why bother posting then? 2. No, no one in Chicago has been here before. We haven't had deficits at this level before... we haven't had an independent IG office do this kind of study before either.... and many of the suggestions are sacred cows that have only been whispered about before (did you notice how the Aldermen reacted to the IG's list? They ran so fast to denounce the whole thing they were out of breath at their press conferences). 3. You still never gave an answer about the transit system. What is your proposed solution? Do you want to just let if fall apart, and dump 1.75M more drivers on the roads? Do you want to invest in it to make it better? Do you want to just have it continue to limp along like it does now, and hope for no major disasters? What would you do? Or do you prefer to be the guy who just yells and screams at stuff because they aren't able or willing to come up with a solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) REVENUE INCREASES ($234M total) Impose a pay-per-throw garbage collection fee: $125M Transaction tax on major exchanges (not sure the fee level, apparently small): $37M Impose a blue cart recycling fee: $18M Eliminate free sewer service for Senior Citizens: $17M Eliminate free water for hospitals and non-profits: $15.2M Double ambulance fees (currently $750, and was recently doubled anyway): $13.2M Eliminate reduced rate city stickers for Seniors: $7.6M Increase health insurance contribition for city employees making over 90k: $1M SERVICE/DEPARTMENT CUTS ($698.6M Total) Eliminate supervisory personnel redundencies (includes 707 from CFD who have a 3.5-1 ratio, and 309 from CPD currently 8-1): $190M Switching to a grid system and reducing to one the laborers per truck: $66.1M Fire 161 general laborers: $65M Reduce firefighting teams from 5 to 4 per vehicle (this proposal caused the 1980 CFD strike): $57M Get rid of on call pay for CPD and CFD: $52M Convert 20% of firefighting apparatus to ambulance/EMS: $41.5M (wouldn’t there be a revenue increase effect here too?) Switch all employees to a 40 hour workweek from 35 and reduce accordingly: $40M Fire 75 downtown traffic control aides: $37M (fire all of them if there are anymore more Transfer City Dept of Public Health to the Cook County Health and Hospital System (LOLOLOLOL): $33.7M Eliminate 200 motor pool truck drivers who just transport to jobs: $19M Transfer all election management oversight to Cook County: $16.1M Eliminate quarterly pay for supervisors (not sure exactly what this means): $9.6M Eliminate Chicago Career Tech (job training program): $8.4M Eliminate tuition reimbursement programs for city employees: $7.3M Eliminate funding for after school and summer employment programs for youth: $6.5M Eliminate Condo Refuse Rebate Program: $6M Eliminate city-funded delegate agency programs for small business: $5.6M Merge City and Park District agencies: $5M Reduce spending on janitorial services: $5M Reduce number of holidays for city employees from 12 to 10: $4.9M Charge more for health insurance for city employees who smoke: $4.8M Eliminate "Personal Computer Operators": $4M Hold municipal elections on same day as statewide elections: $3M Close down the CFD Commisary contract and use just the uniform allowance: $2M Reduce number of fire districts and district-level personnel from 6 to 4: $1.9M Eliminate city TB clinics: $1.4M Eliminate subsidy to "World Business Chicago" economic development office: $1.4M Privatize CFD Internal Affairs investigations: $1.2M Civilianize CPD Forensic Services: $1.1M Privatize parking enforcement: $1.1M Independent commission to redistrict ward boundaries apolitically: $1M Gives you about 300M in surplus which should be used for infrastructure improvement/saved for a rainy day fund. Other ideas: -Get the casino into the old post office building ASAP. Some rich European billionaire wants to spend like 4B to create a casino/hotel/shopping district in the southwest loop, which is great. Do it. Create another destination for the City = more money/job for the local economy. Subsidize the cost and own a minority percent of it for the benefit of the public. -Cut CTA services and/or find a way to make it more efficient. The bus system is in need of some tweaking and I think there's millions in cost savings there. -Not a fan of the fee to enter the city. You basically pay that now with the taxes parking operators pay that are just passed to consumers anyway or the ridiculous street parking rates. Edited September 28, 2011 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 05:55 PM) Agreed in principle. On any day 80 percent of the open parking spaces on my 2 block stretch are occupied with non-Chicago resident's cars. I know this because I did a survey in preparation for making my block a zoned parking area (A big f*** you goes out to Alderman Burnett who has yet to read my petition after 6 months). Those people should all have city parking stickers or be subject to a 50 dollar per day fine. I find it humorous that I work in Lincoln and everything is zoned (and residential) yet a quick bus ride or cheap cab ride to the loop and no zone parking for the west loop. Maybe the city has not realized that the neighborhood is safe to park in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) REVENUE INCREASES ($234M total) Impose a pay-per-throw garbage collection fee: $125M Transaction tax on major exchanges (not sure the fee level, apparently small): $37M Impose a blue cart recycling fee: $18M Eliminate free sewer service for Senior Citizens: $17M Eliminate free water for hospitals and non-profits: $15.2M Double ambulance fees (currently $750, and was recently doubled anyway): $13.2M Eliminate reduced rate city stickers for Seniors: $7.6M Increase health insurance contribition for city employees making over 90k: $1M SERVICE/DEPARTMENT CUTS ($698.6M Total) Eliminate supervisory personnel redundencies (includes 707 from CFD who have a 3.5-1 ratio, and 309 from CPD currently 8-1): $190M Switching to a grid system and reducing to one the laborers per truck: $66.1M Fire 161 general laborers: $65M Reduce firefighting teams from 5 to 4 per vehicle (this proposal caused the 1980 CFD strike): $57M Get rid of on call pay for CPD and CFD: $52M Convert 20% of firefighting apparatus to ambulance/EMS: $41.5M (wouldn’t there be a revenue increase effect here too?) Switch all employees to a 40 hour workweek from 35 and reduce accordingly: $40M Fire 75 downtown traffic control aides: $37M (fire all of them if there are anymore more Transfer City Dept of Public Health to the Cook County Health and Hospital System (LOLOLOLOL): $33.7M Eliminate 200 motor pool truck drivers who just transport to jobs: $19M Transfer all election management oversight to Cook County: $16.1M Eliminate quarterly pay for supervisors (not sure exactly what this means): $9.6M Eliminate Chicago Career Tech (job training program): $8.4M Eliminate tuition reimbursement programs for city employees: $7.3M Eliminate funding for after school and summer employment programs for youth: $6.5M Eliminate Condo Refuse Rebate Program: $6M Eliminate city-funded delegate agency programs for small business: $5.6M Merge City and Park District agencies: $5M Reduce spending on janitorial services: $5M Reduce number of holidays for city employees from 12 to 10: $4.9M Charge more for health insurance for city employees who smoke: $4.8M Eliminate "Personal Computer Operators": $4M Hold municipal elections on same day as statewide elections: $3M Close down the CFD Commisary contract and use just the uniform allowance: $2M Reduce number of fire districts and district-level personnel from 6 to 4: $1.9M Eliminate city TB clinics: $1.4M Eliminate subsidy to "World Business Chicago" economic development office: $1.4M Privatize CFD Internal Affairs investigations: $1.2M Civilianize CPD Forensic Services: $1.1M Privatize parking enforcement: $1.1M Independent commission to redistrict ward boundaries apolitically: $1M Gives you about 300M in surplus which should be used for infrastructure improvement/saved for a rainy day fund. Other ideas: -Get the casino into the old post office building ASAP. Some rich European billionaire wants to spend like 4B to create a casino/hotel/shopping district in the southwest loop, which is great. Do it. Create another destination for the City = more money/job for the local economy. Subsidize the cost and own a minority percent of it for the benefit of the public. -Cut CTA services and/or find a way to make it more efficient. The bus system is in need of some tweaking and I think there's millions in cost savings there. -Not a fan of the fee to enter the city. You basically pay that now with the taxes parking operators pay that are just passed to consumers anyway or the ridiculous street parking rates. I agree on the casino idea, and I agree the CTA needs some efficiencies. Though I also think that, even with those efficiencies, CTA is still underfunded for their infrastructure needs. One thing I see you included on the revenue side is the exchange transaction fee. The financial sector is probably the single most important one for downtown Chicago, and at this point with CME Group talking about leaving (they won't though), I am not sure that adding a tax making the Chicago exchanges less competitive is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 08:41 AM) Wow. Hm, instead of getting all riled up like you did, I'll point out three small facts for you to consider... 1. I think you missed the point of the thread - it is an exercise to create discussion and illustrate that actually making budgetary decisions isn't so easy. This thread was supposed to be people showing what they'd do, and see how those topics fall out. From what I can tell, you think this is a futile effort, which makes me ask... why bother posting then? 2. No, no one in Chicago has been here before. We haven't had deficits at this level before... we haven't had an independent IG office do this kind of study before either.... and many of the suggestions are sacred cows that have only been whispered about before (did you notice how the Aldermen reacted to the IG's list? They ran so fast to denounce the whole thing they were out of breath at their press conferences). 3. You still never gave an answer about the transit system. What is your proposed solution? Do you want to just let if fall apart, and dump 1.75M more drivers on the roads? Do you want to invest in it to make it better? Do you want to just have it continue to limp along like it does now, and hope for no major disasters? What would you do? Or do you prefer to be the guy who just yells and screams at stuff because they aren't able or willing to come up with a solution? I'm not riled up at all...I'm just like that. As for your final sentence which makes zero sense and is nothing more than a weak talking point: That's the people we all are, whether you propose some sort of solution or shoot holes through someone elses proposed solutions on a fan forum...otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversion on a forum, as you'd be an elected official and actually trying to implement said solutions. And to answer your question, again...I don't want to come up with solutions, which is why I didn't run for the f***ing job. Instead, many of us ELECTED other people who promised to come up with said solutions, that we 'trusted' to do so. I have a job, a job I like...and a job I do well, Network Security. If you need solutions to your network security needs, I'm your man. If I actually cared about this as much as you all pretend to care, I'd actually do something about it other than writing about it on a baseball forum...I'd run for office, I'd get out there and into the various republican or democratic clubs around Chicago, and get involved. I'd write congressmen, I'd write city officials, etc... There was a time I was actually involved in such political clubs around Chicago...meeting various people, etc. But I went a different route in my life, a route I'm happy with. I get that this is a conversation...and in this conversation, the role I'm choosing to cover is of the guy that looks at your proposals and explains why *I* don't think they will work (or) why I think they will work (if I see any), and thus far the only one that I can foresee making a dent is the Casino idea but we all know where that leads...to a political discussion where the Governor and other city official disagree and never get it done. While I can try to come up with some of my own, I really don't care too do so, which is why I elected someone else to do it. Edited September 28, 2011 by Y2HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 01:32 PM) I agree on the casino idea, and I agree the CTA needs some efficiencies. Though I also think that, even with those efficiencies, CTA is still underfunded for their infrastructure needs. One thing I see you included on the revenue side is the exchange transaction fee. The financial sector is probably the single most important one for downtown Chicago, and at this point with CME Group talking about leaving (they won't though), I am not sure that adding a tax making the Chicago exchanges less competitive is a good idea. Yeah I'll be honest, I wasn't sure what effect that would have. I have no real strong tie to keeping that in, but if there's evidence that it would hurt more than help, i'd be fine taking it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 01:32 PM) I agree on the casino idea When I worked for the Mayor's Office we did a lot of exploration and research into this. The plan was called "the crown jewel" or something like that, due to the location in the old post office building. The biggest question was whether to provide parking or not. Daley did not want the locals patronizing it often, and therefore, did not want to provide much parking. He simply wanted to lure in tourists. I'm still not sure why it has never gotten done...because most everything Daley wanted done found a way to get done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) Hasn't the Congress Hotel been thrown around as an idea? EDIT: for the casino. Edited September 29, 2011 by DukeNukeEm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Disband CPD marine and helicopter units: $6.2M Just so people know this really isn't possible. Chicago (I think) still has the largest municipal harbor system in the world and there's plenty of business that goes on the water. I work for a company that does it, but the Water Taxi's have really gained a lot of momentum and taken at least some of a load off the CTA. Besides the CPD just got two new patrol speedboats that dont look cheap. So its kind of out the window anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 12:22 AM) Hasn't the Congress Hotel been thrown around as an idea? EDIT: for the casino. The old post office building is right over by the Congress Hotel...the idea was definitely to put it right over in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts