VictoryMC98 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I think I'm going to have to side with the GM who put the roster together having more to do with 2005 than the manager. Just like 2009-2011 is more KW's doing than Ozzie's. When you bring in roughly 10 new players and manage to accomplish what they did with a $65 million dollar payroll, that in and of itself was more impressive than any leadership that Ozzie showed in holding the team together in the face of blowing a 15 game lead. Man, this is soo Naive it's not even funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryMC98 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Even the mods know this guy is right. But they have to be PC and let him speak his mind. Just call him names or something and you'll feel better. lol. And I just realized Rowand is a mod. Which means the criteria must be pretty low to be a mod/admin. Fixed the error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) As am I.. as I never stated that. You imply it in every single post. Yea you're not directly saying it, but you make it quite clear that KW should only be hated and should never be acknowledged. If I'm wrong go out and find a post in which you you didn't slam KW and one where you gave him some due for previous work he has done. In fact, I think you replied to one of my posts saying he had no strengths or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:24 PM) No him winning put them on the Map.. "HIM winning"....the manager doesn't win games, the players do. Good players=good manager Ozzie has said this himself 1,000 times. Jeff Torborg, Gene Lamont and Jerry Manuel all had good seasons managing the club in the last 20-30 years. Putting them on the map is such a subjective phrase. Paris Hilton could be named the manager of the White Sox, or Kim Kardashian, and that would get just as much, if not more attention, than Ozzie managing the Sox to the World Series title. Back then, it was all about the players, the team, and Ozzie stepping back and being on the outside looking in...now, things have reversed 180 degrees, the manager has become (in his own mind at least) more important than the team and organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:24 PM) No him winning put them on the Map.. "HIM winning"....the manager doesn't win games, the players do. Good players=good manager Ozzie has said this himself 1,000 times. Jeff Torborg, Gene Lamont and Jerry Manuel all had good seasons managing the club in the last 20-30 years. Putting them on the map is such a subjective phrase. Paris Hilton could be named the manager of the White Sox, or Kim Kardashian, and that would get just as much, if not more attention, than Ozzie managing the Sox to the World Series title. Back then, it was all about the players, the team, and Ozzie stepping back and being on the outside looking in...now, things have reversed 180 degrees, the manager has become (in his own mind at least) more important than the team and organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:33 PM) Fixed the error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 CHICAGO -- The Chicago White Sox mutually agreed with bench coach Joey Cora that he didn’t have to attend the final two games of the season, but he was not fired via text as has been reported. That’s how general manager Kenny Williams described the situation as Don Cooper was named interim manager for the last two games in the wake of Ozzie Guillen’s departure following Monday’s game. “What happened was that I texted him that he was not managing,” Williams said. “I had heard that someone had told him he was managing today’s game. So I texted him this morning: ‘Don Cooper is managing the game, but if you’d like to talk, stop by my office on the way in.’ He asked me via text if that meant he didn’t have to come to the ballpark.” At that point, Williams said he picked up the phone and called Cora. “We had a conversation that we mutually agreed [since] he is likely to go with Ozzie it would have been, in his words, awkward for him to be here,” Williams said. “So I said, ‘That’s not a problem. I get it. Good luck.’ We exchanged pleasantries and that was the end of it. A three-minute conversation.” Cora is expected to be a part of Guillen’s staff when Guillen is announced as the new Florida Marlins manager. That announcement is expected to come Wednesday. http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...a-isnt-on-bench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:09 PM) Winning will bring the kind of relevency that actually matters. The relevency Ozzie brought was that the White Sox were a reality tv show gone bad. Not once, in the many, many articles written about Ozzie and the Organization was it referred to as a class or model organization. The only thing in and apparently staying in Chicago that will now become irrelevant is Cowley. Edited September 28, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 08:19 PM) It has to be due to the fact Cora made more money than KW during his pro career, as well as the fact that Vanderbilt is considered to be a great school like Stanford. And I don't believe Kenny is degreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 I don't think I'd put Vandy quite on par with Stanford. But 4 year degree from Vandy >>> KW's and Tiger's time at Stanford Obviously Tiger Woods didn't soak up much from the Ethics/Values/Morals 101 class there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:16 PM) His very presence put them on the map, lol? We'll test that theory soon enough when he has to compete in the NL East with another flawed roster. The main thing he has going for him is the excitement of a new beginning and a new stadium...but it only took a year for that effect to wear off in Minnesota or Washington (although the Twins' attendance is still excellent, the excitement is long gone). Another thing that happened is there was a vacuum that Ozzie stepped into with Ordonez, Lee and Valentin all leaving and Frank Thomas no longer the dominant force (due to injuries and time) that he once was...it was the right time and right place for Ozzie to become the manager, there's no doubt about that. But the last 3 years, the ONLY map we were on was the one of increasingly negative perception and publicity. KW has his share of the blame, but he hasn't intentionally created it to the extent Ozzie has...sure, we can talk forever about Dunn and Rios backfiring, and if the team doesn't pull out it during this next phase of Sox baseball, it won't be another manager, it will be KW leaving finally. Kenny needs to go now. I absolutely loathe Guillen but this colossal failure of a season can't be put on his back alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:28 PM) I'm still mystified how this organizational mess is 100 percent Kenny's fault but he gets 0 percent of the credit for the World Series in 05. Williams lucked out with a bunch of marginally-talented players all having career years in 2005. That team wasn't expected to win in 2005 and hasn't come close since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (mcgrad70 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 04:15 AM) Williams lucked out with a bunch of marginally-talented players all having career years in 2005. That team wasn't expected to win in 2005 and hasn't come close since. I think he deserves credit for '05, a lot of credit. But how he survives this mess of a season and Ozzie is the fall guy for Dunn/Rios/Peavy is beyond me. s***, even this year's Jackson trade was stupid. Edited September 28, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Perhaps this is relevant, but I just went back and checked the winning percentage for the Sox since KW took over. According to my calculations, it's .530. Ozzie's winning percentage is .524. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 11:36 PM) Perhaps this is relevant, but I just went back and checked the winning percentage for the Sox since KW took over. According to my calculations, it's .530. Ozzie's winning percentage is .524. Relevance!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 11:36 PM) Perhaps this is relevant, but I just went back and checked the winning percentage for the Sox since KW took over. According to my calculations, it's .530. Ozzie's winning percentage is .524. :lolhitting :lolhitting :lolhitting :lolhitting :lolhitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) The only thing in and apparently staying in Chicago that will now become irrelevant is Cowley. For once, we agree. Let's just hope he doesn't find another source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 11:36 PM) Perhaps this is relevant, but I just went back and checked the winning percentage for the Sox since KW took over. According to my calculations, it's .530. Ozzie's winning percentage is .524. Nicely done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 11:26 PM) I think he deserves credit for '05, a lot of credit. But how he survives this mess of a season and Ozzie is the fall guy for Dunn/Rios/Peavy is beyond me. s***, even this year's Jackson trade was stupid. Greg, you have realized that Ozzie wasn't fired, right? He wanted to go, so the Sox let him go. Ozzie asked for an extension and more money while KW offered to step down. I'm not absolving KW of any of this mess, but at least he realized that things didn't pan out like he planned. Ozzie isn't the fall guy here. He made the decision to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 09:36 PM) Give him a break. He's just a kid. Hence the 98 in his name. I didn't know much at 13 either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 The simple answer to why Cora is not interim manager is because he is joinig Ozzie in Florida. Ozzie and Joey are too close and would maange much the same way probably and that's why KW wouldn't go with Cora, if he really wants to go in a different direction. But, in reality I think the stories of Jerry wanting both KW and Ozzie back for 2012 are true. Ozzie just wasn't willing to stay one more year considering the opportunity arising in Florida Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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