Balta1701 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 10:14 AM) You think they contend in 2013 with Ramirez. I don't see how. I think they have a good shot at contending in 2012 with Ramirez. 2013...depends on what comes back in deals that we make now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:17 AM) I think they have a good shot at contending in 2012 with Ramirez. The plan though is to rebuild. If they contend while rebuilding great, but the rebuild is the priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:21 AM) The plan though is to rebuild. If they contend while rebuilding great, but the rebuild is the priority. It isn't really a true rebuild though, which is what you are aiming for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:21 AM) It isn't really a true rebuild though, which is what you are aiming for. Kenny said it's time to play the kids. At 30, Ramirez is no kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:25 AM) Kenny said it's time to play the kids. At 30, Ramirez is no kid. All I Needed to Know About the Off-Season, I Learned in a Tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) While I agree with Marty if your rebuilding, you trade off assets who could net a good return (like Alexei) but I doubt any trade you do for a prospect(s) will net you an Andrus type talent in return (and if it is, it will surely be in 2-4 years, possibly longer) not to mention we don't have one in the wings currently (if you play Escobar, you either expect guys like Beckham, Morel, Flowers, De Aza, etc. to really improve, or in De Aza's case, maintain that level of play and to not have Konerko regress and I'm not even counting Dunn, Rios and the pitching staff) And prospects are not even a guarantee to fully make it in the bigs (and I'm still skeptical a bit in our scouting as far as hitting prospects). You either gotta have faith at the front office, or hope a guy becomes the answer in 2-3 years. (big fan of Saladino but again.. hit or miss) You really can't do a complete rebuild however with certain guys tied onto the roster. (though I still want A.J. gone somehow) Luckily this will probably be Peavy's last year with his buyout looming so I'm sure he'll "pitch like a bulldog" next season which also helps the sox financially with options. I'm just not a big fan of going the Royals route of completely sucking unless I have Tampa/Atlanta's scouts. Edited October 4, 2011 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 09:40 AM) While I agree with Marty if your rebuilding, you trade off assets who could net a good return (like Alexei) but I doubt any trade you do for a prospect(s) will net you an Andrus type talent in return That's ok. That should not preclude them from dealing guys. At least with Ramirez, the Sox have something no other team can offer. Like I've said before, I believe there will be better starting pitchers on the market than Danks and Floyd which will limit the return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Oct 3, 2011 -> 11:23 PM) I personally do not have much faith in Stewart, but judging from Axelrod's minor league track record and his cup of tea this year, I think he could end up being a nice 4th starter for this team. But since we have Humber in the bullpen as insurance, if either of Axelrod or Stewart falters, I think Humber should be given a chance to prove himself once more. As far as pitching rotation depth is concerned, if we are trading Q, D1, Floyd, and Thorton, I would expect us to net a few close to major league ready starting pitching prospects back. Based on our attendance this year, I think you are right on with our cap situation this year. Getting to around $90 million means Danks and perhaps Floyd won't be back next year. What we have in house right now may be question marks, but in reality, I don't think the drop off is that big from this year. So, we should give Axelrod and Stewart the opportunity to start over Humber? That's just great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Chris Sale is expected to be moved into the starting rotation if Mark Buehrle isn’t re-signed Is Padilla saying that Sale moving to the rotation is dependent on Buehrle leaving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 11:52 AM) Is Padilla saying that Sale moving to the rotation is dependent on Buehrle leaving? Good catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 It doesn't sound like much in that article is accurate. The Phils made a major push for Pence, not Quentin. CQ wasn't the guy they wanted, and for obvious reasons. And I don't think De Aza, Viciedo, or anyone we have (not much) is pushing CQ out the door as much as his contract situation, defensive incapabilities, and injury history are. In that sense, KW could say anything, even "We're going to be a veteran team in 2012" and it would still seem likely that CQ will be traded. KW's comments, if anything can be inferred, would appear to signal the end of one or both of Danks/Floyd, not Carlos. Sale as a starter is a decision that has nothing to do with MB or anyone else. They must really believe he can make it as a top-end starter to take him out of the pen where he is one of the nastiest guys in the league, and if they believe that, then they would make a spot for him no matter what. The AJ-Flowers question is all about whether they think Flowers can make it. He's a much better hitter now than he was in earlier stints, but is it enough? IMO if the Sox have any confidence in him at all as a full-time player they will eat a couple mil on AJ and send him to a contender, bringing in a veteran tutor as a backup (if Sandy is the next manager or is on the next coaching staff he could definitely help). Otherwise, AJ will get the majority of time behind the plate with Flowers as a backup and getting more work in at 1B. The Sox aren't going to make AJ sit, nor are they going to wait around an extra year to accommodate him if they feel Flowers has some kind of future as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) It doesn't sound like much in that article is accurate. The Phils made a major push for Pence, not Quentin. CQ wasn't the guy they wanted, and for obvious reasons. And I don't think De Aza, Viciedo, or anyone we have (not much) is pushing CQ out the door as much as his contract situation, defensive incapabilities, and injury history are. In that sense, KW could say anything, even "We're going to be a veteran team in 2012" and it would still seem likely that CQ will be traded. KW's comments, if anything can be inferred, would appear to signal the end of one or both of Danks/Floyd, not Carlos. Sale as a starter is a decision that has nothing to do with MB or anyone else. They must really believe he can make it as a top-end starter to take him out of the pen where he is one of the nastiest guys in the league, and if they believe that, then they would make a spot for him no matter what. The AJ-Flowers question is all about whether they think Flowers can make it. He's a much better hitter now than he was in earlier stints, but is it enough? IMO if the Sox have any confidence in him at all as a full-time player they will eat a couple mil on AJ and send him to a contender, bringing in a veteran tutor as a backup (if Sandy is the next manager or is on the next coaching staff he could definitely help). Otherwise, AJ will get the majority of time behind the plate with Flowers as a backup and getting more work in at 1B. The Sox aren't going to make AJ sit, nor are they going to wait around an extra year to accommodate him if they feel Flowers has some kind of future as a starter. I completely agree. Even with Ozzie gone, they won't sit him. And they definitely wouldn't trade him if they don't think (rightfully) that Flowers is ready to take over full time. Edited October 4, 2011 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) I completely agree. Even with Ozzie gone, they won't sit him. And they definitely wouldn't trade him if they don't think (rightfully) that Flowers is ready to take over full time. If they had someone willing to take on AJ's full 2012 salary and give something back in return, I can't imagine they'd hold onto him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) If they had someone willing to take on AJ's full 2012 salary and give something back in return, I can't imagine they'd hold onto him. That isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 02:33 PM) That isn't going to happen. But that has nothing to do with Flowers's readiness. They won't move AJ because they're not paying for him to go away. Not because Flowers isn't ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo880 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Why do we need to do anything about the catching situation? It's KW/JR's fault we backloaded AJ's contract. It's for one more season, not at an absurd price (ala Rios, Dunn, Peavy), and he's still good. Keep him and play him 4-5 games a week while Flowers gets 1-3 games a week. It won't be a platoon situation but you could certainly take advantage of the righty/lefty matchups. This gives Flowers a chance to keep learning the staff and study under Pierzynski, whether Pierzynski is actually going to "tutor" him or not. After that hopefully Flowers is ready to take over in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I wonder if the Yankees would accept a Danks for Gardener deal? They will be in a desperate need for pitching this offseason and im sure they can just replace Gardener on the free agent market somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 04:45 PM) I wonder if the Yankees would accept a Danks for Gardener deal? They will be in a desperate need for pitching this offseason and im sure they can just replace Gardener on the free agent market somewhere. If Danks had performed in 2011 like he performed in 2008 we might have had a shot. I think that's a great deal more value than the Sox can expect from Danks. And the worst part is...where would he play? Who you benching, De Aza, Quentin, Lillibridge, Rios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) I wonder if the Yankees would accept a Danks for Gardener deal? They will be in a desperate need for pitching this offseason and im sure they can just replace Gardener on the free agent market somewhere. Need pitching back for Danks. The Yankees are a team to target though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (kevo880 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 08:29 PM) Why do we need to do anything about the catching situation? It's KW/JR's fault we backloaded AJ's contract. It's for one more season, not at an absurd price (ala Rios, Dunn, Peavy), and he's still good. Keep him and play him 4-5 games a week while Flowers gets 1-3 games a week. It won't be a platoon situation but you could certainly take advantage of the righty/lefty matchups. This gives Flowers a chance to keep learning the staff and study under Pierzynski, whether Pierzynski is actually going to "tutor" him or not. After that hopefully Flowers is ready to take over in 2013. If AJ is on the team, IMO there's no way the new manager sits him 3 games a week, unless he DHs one of those games. If he's not playing 5 or 6 out of every seven, I bet you see a rift with AJ and the new manager, which the new manager won't want. Did you see the one postgame presser where the Mets' manager was crying recently about letting Reyes sit out most of that final game? He said he spent the year trying to earn the players' respect and he was fine with doing Reyes the favor. The Sox new manager can't afford to run afoul of AJ. So if AJ is healthy, Flowers will get Castro-like playing time, not much at all. Edited October 4, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryMC98 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 If Danks had performed in 2011 like he performed in 2008 we might have had a shot. I think that's a great deal more value than the Sox can expect from Danks. And the worst part is...where would he play? Who you benching, De Aza, Quentin, Lillibridge, Rios? CQ, traded.. he can replace the other 3 easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 03:53 PM) If Danks had performed in 2011 like he performed in 2008 we might have had a shot. I think that's a great deal more value than the Sox can expect from Danks. And the worst part is...where would he play? Who you benching, De Aza, Quentin, Lillibridge, Rios? For Gardner? Any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Gardner is also arb-eligible this offseason, so he will be going up in price quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) I wonder if the Yankees would accept a Danks for Gardener deal? They will be in a desperate need for pitching this offseason and im sure they can just replace Gardener on the free agent market somewhere. I think they're going to wait for Hamels/Cain to hit FA. They didn't bite on Greinke or Ubaldo, the latter on an extremely team-friendly contract. I can't see them doing so for Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 4, 2011 -> 06:27 PM) I think they're going to wait for Hamels/Cain to hit FA. They didn't bite on Greinke or Ubaldo, the latter on an extremely team-friendly contract. I can't see them doing so for Danks. They might well go after Danks...but you're just not getting their top guys for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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