Let the Rebuild Begin

[RockRaines]

At some point we have to count on our youngsters whether home grown or acquired to develop. We just have to. Flowers, Viciedo, Morel, De Aza, etc have to all perform like regular MLB players.

[Harry Chappas]

Let's face it, if the Tigers go out and sign someone like Reyes and get superior seasons again from Fister/Avila/Peralta...we tip our cap to them. Sox have to win with what they currently have.

 

sure and reyes will be hurt and play about 80 games but I see your point and agree. There really is nothing the Sox can do and they just need to hope the potential and health show up.

 

Martinez was very healthy this year for them and I am not certain Verlander will not get injured and Velerde had a Cotts/Politte year

 

They are the team to beat but I think they are beatable.

[Milkman delivers]

But that team you list will include players we get for Danks and Floyd.

Are you saying those will be minor leaguers?

 

You lineup looks like the team. Seriously will it be the slowest team in the history of baseball?

Those guys better hit a ton of home runs.

Very very slow. Maybe slowest team in Sox history?

 

Not even close to both of those bold sentences.

[Lillian]

This team needs at least one year to find out what they have in the way of young players who can contribute. Playing Morel, Beckham, Viciedo, de Aza, Milledge and Flowers may not produce a winning season, but it could identify the holes that need to be filled.

The following is a list of possible moves that could be made to prepare for 2013:

 

1) Trade Quentin and Danks, as they will both be due for a big pay day in 2013

 

2) Unload Peavy, Rios, and Dunn. One or two of those bad contracts could be packaged with Quentin or Danks, in order to move them.

A. J. should be traded to make room for Flowers, who does not profile well as a platoon candidate, since he hits RHP better than LHP.

 

3) Play the best, most promising minor leaguers:

Viciedo

Flowers

de Aza

Milledge

McPherson

Marrero

 

Before anyone rejects this idea, out of hand, look at the split stats. Some of those guys have very good splits, especially the left handed hitters.

Give them all a season at the Big League level to find out what we have, even if they are platooned

 

4) Resign Buerhle if Danks is not resigned, or is traded

 

5) Acquire a young left handed power hitting prospect, in the trades

 

6) Use next season to evaluate the team’s status and needs

 

7) Use newly established payroll flexibility to acquire missing pieces through free agency, at the end of next season.

 

Line up vs RHP / LHP

 

CF de Aza / Lillibridge

SS Ramirez

1B Konerko

DH McPherson / __??_____

RF Viciedo

LF Marrero / Milledge

C Flowers

2B Beckham

3B Morel

 

SPLITS

 

Marrero

AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS

.316 307 53 97 20 7 9 50 45 46 9 3 .403 .515 .917

McPherson

.305 272 42 83 22 0 16 51 25 79 0 1 .361 .563 .924

 

Millidge

AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS

.393 117 23 46 5 2 7 18 18 10 12 1 .478 .650 1.128

 

Starters

 

Sale

Floyd

Humber

Buerhle or Danks

Stewart or Axelrod

Relievers

 

Santos

Thornton

Crain

Frasor

Reed

Santiago

Edited September 28, 2011 by Lillian

[prochisox]

Looks like pick #13 again for the white sox in the next draft...

[caulfield12]

McPherson and Marrero, really?

 

Milledge deserves another shot before those guys. And you're leaving out Lillibridge.

 

He's not going to get a legit shot to play everyday.

 

And if you try to package Rios/Dunn with Quentin/Danks/Floyd/Ramirez/Thornton, etc., we're just giving away all the talent that could actually get something decent back in return.

 

Rios and Dunn (and even Beckham) are sunk costs. We have to give them 2012 to recover and see what we actually have. Trading both of them at this point and eating millions of dollars just doesn't make any sense. Buy low, sell high. You have to wait, as painful as it might be....as predictable as the results might be to some who say they will all suck forever, even with a new pitching coach.

[chw42]

Dallas McPherson...lawl.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Isn't Dallas like a couple years younger than Tex?

[VictoryMC98]

Congrats, Kenny..aka Jim Hendry lite Only about four eleven years late to the party. Dumbass.

 

That's more like it.

Edited September 29, 2011 by VictoryMC98

[Cali]

That's more like it.

 

So, the rebuild should have come in 2000? That makes ZERO sense...

[VictoryMC98]

So, the rebuild should have come in 2000? That makes ZERO sense...

 

No, the fact Kenny now realizes you need a farm system... instead of gutting it for the mediocre talent he has brought in over the years.

Edited September 29, 2011 by VictoryMC98

[Lillian]

Dallas McPherson...lawl.

 

I knew that the suggestion of McPherson would raise some eyebrows, but keep an open mind.

He has had two very good years at AAA the last two seasons, especially vs. RHP.

If we could unload Dunn, he could be a good, cost effective left handed DH

There's not much point in spending a lot on a free agent left handed power hitter during this rebuilding phase, but the Sox need a left handed presence in the middle of the order.

[VictoryMC98]

I knew that the suggestion of McPherson would raise some eyebrows, but keep an open mind.

He has had two very good years at AAA the last two seasons, especially vs. RHP.

If we could unload Dunn, he could be a good, cost effective left handed DH

There's not much point in spending a lot on a free agent left handed power hitter during this rebuilding phase, but the Sox need a left handed presence in the middle of the order.

 

There isn't much the Sox would get for him. I still think he wasn't 100% healthy since his Mayish surgery. Give him another year, hope he turns back to MLB form, then this time next year, look to move him.

[Lillian]

McPherson and Marrero, really?

 

Milledge deserves another shot before those guys. And you're leaving out Lillibridge.

 

He's not going to get a legit shot to play everyday.

 

And if you try to package Rios/Dunn with Quentin/Danks/Floyd/Ramirez/Thornton, etc., we're just giving away all the talent that could actually get something decent back in return.

 

Rios and Dunn (and even Beckham) are sunk costs. We have to give them 2012 to recover and see what we actually have. Trading both of them at this point and eating millions of dollars just doesn't make any sense. Buy low, sell high. You have to wait, as painful as it might be....as predictable as the results might be to some who say they will all suck forever, even with a new pitching coach.

 

I never suggested "eating" any of their salaries. That was my rationale for packaging them with the more desirable trading chips.

I have Lillibridge platooning with de Aza in C.F. De Aza is much better vs. RHP and Brent is more effective vs. LHP. They could share the lead off spot.

I also have Milledge in LF.

 

My motive in moving Rios and Dunn now is to free up some salary, and to give the younger guys a chance to play next year. It may not be possible, but it's a reasonable goal.

 

McPherson's numbers vs RHP this year at Charlotte project to a .305 AVG, with 44 doubles, 32 homers and 100 RBI's. He put up similar numbers last year.

Given his previous Minor League stats, why not give him a shot vs RHP at DH, if you could unload Dunn? I know that he's older, but he's really never had a chance to blossom because of his terrible injury misfortunes.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Lillian

[kitekrazy]

Agreed about where money needs to be spent. But the White Sox obviously cannot continue to be dead last in bonus spending if they want to successfully rebuild in a timely manner.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/...itures-2007-11/

 

^^^ That simply will not do, especially during a rebuild of sorts. It's almost embarassing consdering the resources available to the organization. Hopefully Kenny has or will have a nice talk and persuasive presentation for Jerry on the returns from investing in amateur talent.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Kenny is the scapegoat in this. I've read more than once, Reinsdorf tends to get too involved in the draft process.

 

[chisoxfan09]

If history is an indicator, expect to be disappointed by KW.

 

Let's hope he retools the FO somehat and truly delegates the talent judging to someone qualified.

Edited September 29, 2011 by SpainSOXfan09

[chisoxfan09]

McPherson and Marrero, really?

 

Milledge deserves another shot before those guys. And you're leaving out Lillibridge.

 

He's not going to get a legit shot to play everyday.

 

And if you try to package Rios/Dunn with Quentin/Danks/Floyd/Ramirez/Thornton, etc., we're just giving away all the talent that could actually get something decent back in return.

 

Rios and Dunn (and even Beckham) are sunk costs. We have to give them 2012 to recover and see what we actually have. Trading both of them at this point and eating millions of dollars just doesn't make any sense. Buy low, sell high. You have to wait, as painful as it might be....as predictable as the results might be to some who say they will all suck forever, even with a new pitching coach.

 

Another wildcard is to just keep Danks and offer him Arb after next season and hope he has a great year and he walks. We get 2 comp picks that should be decent even if he barely makes type B status. Here hoping he rebounds in such a scenario. Although he could have easily been 12-12 or 13-11/14-10. He had a few starts with 0 run support IIRC.

Edited September 29, 2011 by SpainSOXfan09

[caulfield12]

I never suggested "eating" any of their salaries. That was my rationale for packaging them with the more desirable trading chips.

I have Lillibridge platooning with de Aza in C.F. De Aza is much better vs. RHP and Brent is more effective vs. LHP. They could share the lead off spot.

I also have Milledge in LF.

 

My motive in moving Rios and Dunn now is to free up some salary, and to give the younger guys a chance to play next year. It may not be possible, but it's a reasonable goal.

 

McPherson's numbers vs RHP this year at Charlotte project to a .305 AVG, with 44 doubles, 32 homers and 100 RBI's. He put up similar numbers last year.

Given his previous Minor League stats, why not give him a shot vs RHP at DH, if you could unload Dunn? I know that he's older, but he's really never had a chance to blossom because of his terrible injury misfortunes.

 

 

Even if you offered Danks and Quentin together, you're still not going to get them to take in the entirety of the Rios OR Dunn contracts.

 

Maybe if the White Sox chipped in one-third or half, like the Phillies did with the Thome for Rowand deal.

 

The problem with that is 1) you don't get any infusion of minor league talent for two of our more valuable trading chips this offeason and 2) you're still losing money on Dunn/Rios, basically paying them not to play, when the odds are at least 50/50 that one or both will recover and have solid seasons in 2012 with a new hitting coach/approach. Beckham, too.

 

This is the type of move you really have to wait until the midpoint of 2012 to make.

 

I would be shocked if KW was STILL AROUND as the GM and gave up on Dunn (eating all or part of the contract) and then used McPherson in that role. The only way that could possibly happen would be with a new GM who wasn't interested in proving or justifying the correctness of his original decisions.

 

 

 

 

[Lillian]

Even if you offered Danks and Quentin together, you're still not going to get them to take in the entirety of the Rios OR Dunn contracts.

 

Maybe if the White Sox chipped in one-third or half, like the Phillies did with the Thome for Rowand deal.

 

The problem with that is 1) you don't get any infusion of minor league talent for two of our more valuable trading chips this offeason and 2) you're still losing money on Dunn/Rios, basically paying them not to play, when the odds are at least 50/50 that one or both will recover and have solid seasons in 2012 with a new hitting coach/approach. Beckham, too.

 

This is the type of move you really have to wait until the midpoint of 2012 to make.

 

I would be shocked if KW was STILL AROUND as the GM and gave up on Dunn (eating all or part of the contract) and then used McPherson in that role. The only way that could possibly happen would be with a new GM who wasn't interested in proving or justifying the correctness of his original decisions.

 

Well, if they can't unload Rios and Dunn, without paying a significant part of their salaries, even if packaged with Danks or Quentin, then I agree with you.

I guess they just have to play both of them and hope that they rebound so that they can trade them then. Meanwhile, unless they trade Quentin, it looks like de Aza would be the only newcomer who would see any playing time. He could replace Pierre. Viciedo and Milledge would remain at AAA until the Sox could finally deal Rios and Dunn.

 

How long would you wait for them to rebound, before you just bit the bullet, and got rid of them, even if it included salary relief for the team that would take them?

 

It's hard to imagine suffering through another year of Adam Dunn performing anywhere near the disastrous, pathetic level we all had to endure this season.

That would not only block the chance for some of the more promising youngsters, few as they are, but it would kill attendance. Fans simply won't spend their money to watch someone embarrass themselves while making that kind of salary, especially in this economy.

 

Your points are all well taken, and I suppose that you're right, but I just wonder at what point management has to stop hoping for a turnaround from Rios and Dunn.

[max power]

Your points are all well taken, and I suppose that you're right, but I just wonder at what point management has to stop hoping for a turnaround from Rios and Dunn.

I think it depends upon their standings. If they are anywhere close, I'd say they evaluate them on june 1st.

[chisoxt]

Yup. Not every GM is as short-sighted as KW. It'd be shocking for any team to give up a guy comparable to Daniel Hudson for a year of John Danks.

Not only are we hand-tied by Williams proclivity towards dumb trades, but it's difficult to get a lot in return when your primary goal is to dump salary.

 

When I think about what we might have had I want to cry.

[caulfield12]

I think it depends upon their standings. If they are anywhere close, I'd say they evaluate them on june 1st.

 

 

Rios would never quit, but Dunn very well might. He has SOME pride, every professional athlete does.

 

And yet I can't remember a player in history walking away from $30-35-40 million still on the contract.

 

Gil Meche, that was one season, not 2 1/2. And he was injured and didn't want to go through another long period of rehab.

 

 

Ideally, if it's going to be like 2011 again, Dunn retires and we can package Rios and whatever we have of value to dump him....leaving only Peavy.

Edited September 29, 2011 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Ideally, if it's going to be like 2011 again, Dunn retires and we can package Rios and whatever we have of value to dump him....leaving only Peavy.

Dude, seriously, GIVE IT UP.

 

We're not packaging Chris Sale and Alex Rios to move Alex Rios next year. It's not happening.

[Balta1701]

Another wildcard is to just keep Danks and offer him Arb after next season and hope he has a great year and he walks. We get 2 comp picks that should be decent even if he barely makes type B status. Here hoping he rebounds in such a scenario. Although he could have easily been 12-12 or 13-11/14-10. He had a few starts with 0 run support IIRC.

? The Sox would only get 1 comp pick for D1 if he was a type B free agent, and a Sandwich pick should still be much less valuable than Danks in a trade (And I write that as a person who thinks Danks seriously hurt his trade value this year).

[southsider2k5]

No, the fact Kenny now realizes you need a farm system... instead of gutting it for the mediocre talent he has brought in over the years.

 

Kenny had the #1 farm system in baseball when he got here, how did that work out for him?

 

Also, this might be the first time he is saying it publicly, but look at the roster and it tells a different story. The farm system is paying dividends right now.