Who do you want as the new manager?

[Marty34]

Guillen didn't make the Sox relevant, winning did. A solid organization that produces multiple playoff appearances over a 5-year period or more makes the Sox relevant.

[jenksycat]

Huh, I always assumed a team's relevancy was dependent on you know the PLAYERS, not the manager...

 

Talkin to the wrong guy about that.

 

I want whatever the polar opposite of Ozzie is

[southsider2k5]

Where is Joe Cowley with Jay Mariotti as his bench coach?

[harfman77]

I think some are deluding themselves about the appeal of the managerial job for the Sox.

 

The good side of working for the Sox is that you have a really long leash and the organization is loyal to a fault. There is some nice young talent on the roster between Viciedo, De Aza, Beckham, Sale, Stewart, Reed, and Santos that are all pre-arb players so will likely be around for a while.

 

The other side of the equation is that JR is still owner so the GM is handcuffed to select signable talent in the draft. There will be no Boras clients (often the best players in baseball). Secondary team in the media market. Payroll will be getting slashed and Sox will enter a rebuilding phase. The Sox are on the hook for overpriced vets like Dunn, Rios, and Peavy. You are likely losing the top two-three pitchers in the rotation going into next season.

 

I just dont see any top candidate taking a look at that and thinking that is the situation they want to put themselves in. Dave Martinez is going to get to pick his job when he leaves TB. Tito would sit out and lick his wounds before jumping in with the Sox.

 

The Sox are going to have to roll the dice on someone. While I like Sandy Alomar, the more I think about it the more Sandberg makes sense. He has experience in player development as he has coached at every level of minor league baseball. He has a little competitive fire in his belly as a manager. I think that the Sox should look at someone who has worked in the minors if they are serious about going into rebuilding.

[Steve9347]

I'd jizz over Martinez. Alomar would make me yawn.

[chw42]

No offense to Sandy, but this truly is our return to irrelevance.

Francona would be making a statement.

Sandy? Nice dull man to manage a dead team as it rebuilds and hopes the rebuild isn't Royals or Pirates like.

 

So dull manager = bad team?

[caulfield12]

I know.

 

We should name Bill James as our manager, just to prove how good (or bad) the father of all SABR movements would actually be as a "real" manager and not just a Strat-O-Matic one.

 

Probably a better idea than Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian.

 

Although Ryno's a close 2nd, just because it would annoy the Cubs' columnist from the Quad-City Times who named his first-born son after him.

[knightni]

Where is Joe Cowley with Jay Mariotti as his bench coach?

I always thought of Mariotti as the hitting coach.

[greg775]

Huh, I always assumed a team's relevancy was dependent on you know the PLAYERS, not the manager...

 

 

I think some are deluding themselves about the appeal of the managerial job for the Sox.

 

The good side of working for the Sox is that you have a really long leash and the organization is loyal to a fault. There is some nice young talent on the roster between Viciedo, De Aza, Beckham, Sale, Stewart, Reed, and Santos that are all pre-arb players so will likely be around for a while.

 

The other side of the equation is that JR is still owner so the GM is handcuffed to select signable talent in the draft. There will be no Boras clients (often the best players in baseball). Secondary team in the media market. Payroll will be getting slashed and Sox will enter a rebuilding phase. The Sox are on the hook for overpriced vets like Dunn, Rios, and Peavy. You are likely losing the top two-three pitchers in the rotation going into next season.

 

I just dont see any top candidate taking a look at that and thinking that is the situation they want to put themselves in. Dave Martinez is going to get to pick his job when he leaves TB. Tito would sit out and lick his wounds before jumping in with the Sox.

 

The Sox are going to have to roll the dice on someone. While I like Sandy Alomar, the more I think about it the more Sandberg makes sense. He has experience in player development as he has coached at every level of minor league baseball. He has a little competitive fire in his belly as a manager. I think that the Sox should look at someone who has worked in the minors if they are serious about going into rebuilding.

 

 

So dull manager = bad team?

 

1.) I agree players win games, so I guess Alomar could be great if everybody has career years.

2.) Nice post IMO. I agree they are rolling the dice on Sandy. He'll come relatively cheap and be calm if we suck next year.

3.) No, but I think if you have a chance to get a personality who has won a WS like Francona, you'd be stupid to not take him over what, a couple million dollars?

Pay the money, steal the headlines.

I just have this gut feeling that Sandy will be the calm guy who is in charge as our team takes over KC's role as doormat in the division.

 

[chw42]

1.) I agree players win games, so I guess Alomar could be great if everybody has career years.

2.) Nice post IMO. I agree they are rolling the dice on Sandy. He'll come relatively cheap and be calm if we suck next year.

3.) No, but I think if you have a chance to get a personality who has won a WS like Francona, you'd be stupid to not take him over what, a couple million dollars?

Pay the money, steal the headlines.

I just have this gut feeling that Sandy will be the calm guy who is in charge as our team takes over KC's role as doormat in the division.

 

Francona won with a lot of talent and one of the highest payrolls in baseball. Give that to a lot of managers and they accomplish that. I wouldn't mind Francona, but I'd rather go down a completely new road with a guy that has the tools to be a great manager like Maddon or Scioscia.

[Steve9347]

I always thought of Mariotti as the hitting coach.

Oh... this. This is an excellent, excellent post.

[Wanne]

I always thought of Mariotti as the hitting coach.

 

TWO Big Thumbs up!!!

[fathom]

What I don't get is everyone clamoring for Martinez yet yawning at the thought of Alomar. Neither of them have any type of significant managerial experience to base our opinion of how they'll be as a MLB manager. People are upset that Alomar might be reserved and quiet? Screw that, I'll take reserved and quiet if it means making smart decisions.

[Wanne]

What I don't get is everyone clamoring for Martinez yet yawning at the thought of Alomar. Neither of them have any type of significant managerial experience to base our opinion of how they'll be as a MLB manager. People are upset that Alomar might be reserved and quiet? Screw that, I'll take reserved and quiet if it means making smart decisions.

 

It's because Alomar isn't standing next to The Most Brilliant man in all of baseball scribbling on a piece of paper in a mimicking fashion. So yes...that automatically makes Martinez the Second Most Brilliant man in all of baseball. Ya know...a lot of athletes are reserved and quit...and yet garner a ton of respect. Find somebody in that Cleveland dugout that doesn't listen when Alomar talks...guarantee you none.

[Kalapse]

What I don't get is everyone clamoring for Martinez yet yawning at the thought of Alomar. Neither of them have any type of significant managerial experience to base our opinion of how they'll be as a MLB manager. People are upset that Alomar might be reserved and quiet? Screw that, I'll take reserved and quiet if it means making smart decisions.

There's a huge difference in experience, neither has been a manager obviously but one of them was a bench coach for 4 years on a team that won 2 division titles, a Wild Card and a Pennant. The other has 2 years experience as a first base coach in the city of Cleveland and 2 years as a catching instructor with the Mets before that. I have nothing against Sandy, I don't think he'd be reserved at all, he could be a fine manager and if he gets the job I won't be upset but the prospects of Dave Martinez just excite me significantly more. It mostely has to do with my love of Joe Maddon, that guy is all kinds of special.

[Kalapse]

It's because Alomar isn't standing next to The Most Brilliant man in all of baseball scribbling on a piece of paper in a mimicking fashion. So yes...that automatically makes Martinez the Second Most Brilliant man in all of baseball. Ya know...a lot of athletes are reserved and quit...and yet garner a ton of respect. Find somebody in that Cleveland dugout that doesn't listen when Alomar talks...guarantee you none.

Seriously, why must every f***ing discussion devolve into needless hyperbole? This is why it's so god damn hard to get good dialogue going here, it's f***ing ridiculous.

[iamshack]

There's a huge difference in experience, neither has been a manager obviously but one of them was a bench coach for 4 years on a team that won 2 division titles, a Wild Card and a Pennant. The other has 2 years experience as a first base coach in the city of Cleveland and 2 years as a catching instructor with the Mets before that. I have nothing against Sandy, I don't think he'd be reserved at all, he could be a fine manager and if he gets the job I won't be upset but the prospects of Dave Martinez just excite me significantly more. It mostely has to do with my love of Joe Maddon, that guy is all kinds of special.

Another thing is Martinez's experience with young players. The Rays, as everyone knows, are built from a nucleus of young players and more and more are continually shuffled through their system and into the Big League roster. His experience in understanding how to work with young players, how to incorporate their talent and skills into the team instead of trying to incorporate the team into their players...that is what excites me.

 

Martinez, by almost all accounts, should be everything Ozzie was not, on a lot of levels.

 

Nothing against Sandy, but that's why I'd rather have Dave Martinez.

[Dick Allen]

There's a huge difference in experience, neither has been a manager obviously but one of them was a bench coach for 4 years on a team that won 2 division titles, a Wild Card and a Pennant. The other has 2 years experience as a first base coach in the city of Cleveland and 2 years as a catching instructor with the Mets before that. I have nothing against Sandy, I don't think he'd be reserved at all, he could be a fine manager and if he gets the job I won't be upset but the prospects of Dave Martinez just excite me significantly more. It mostely has to do with my love of Joe Maddon, that guy is all kinds of special.

I just don't understand how standing next to Joe Maddon is going to make you the next Joe Maddon. Obviously, I don't know Martinez but I'm sure he'll get an interview. If its Martinez, Francona (although if he's available, I think he'll be a little too pricey for JR's taste) or Sandy, I'll be happy, but happiest if its Sandy. I like his background. He was very respected as a player, Thome called him the leader of those great Cleveland teams. According to Stone, he's very respected in the Cleveland clubhouse. Maddon is great, but that doesn't guarantee Martinez will great. Sometimes playing second fiddle is a better gig for people. Sandy could suck too, but the White Sox mentioned Sandy as a future manager 8 years ago. I think KW and JR will be most comfortable with him. Toronto liked him a little more than Martinez last year, although that doesn't necessarily mean anything. But if its close, familiarity usually wins. Who knows maybe one or both take a different job.

[Balta1701]

Another thing is Martinez's experience with young players. The Rays, as everyone knows, are built from a nucleus of young players and more and more are continually shuffled through their system and into the Big League roster. His experience in understanding how to work with young players, how to incorporate their talent and skills into the team instead of trying to incorporate the team into their players...that is what excites me.

 

Martinez, by almost all accounts, should be everything Ozzie was not, on a lot of levels.

 

Nothing against Sandy, but that's why I'd rather have Dave Martinez.

Cleveland has been marching through young players too, and a lot of them stepped up this year. Not trying to knock Martinez here, just sayin'.

[Milkman delivers]

There's a huge difference in experience, neither has been a manager obviously but one of them was a bench coach for 4 years on a team that won 2 division titles, a Wild Card and a Pennant. The other has 2 years experience as a first base coach in the city of Cleveland and 2 years as a catching instructor with the Mets before that. I have nothing against Sandy, I don't think he'd be reserved at all, he could be a fine manager and if he gets the job I won't be upset but the prospects of Dave Martinez just excite me significantly more. It mostely has to do with my love of Joe Maddon, that guy is all kinds of special.

 

Perfectly put.

[Wanne]

Seriously, why must every f***ing discussion devolve into needless hyperbole? This is why it's so god damn hard to get good dialogue going here, it's f***ing ridiculous.

 

Jesus...take an f***ing chill pill!!!! Like there's not enough ad nauseum on every little topic. I just don't buy the fact that just because Martinez has been bench coach for X years and Alomar has only been X...makes Martinez better or more qualified. Alomar has been around the game long enough...and around plenty of coaches to know what he'd like to see/do as a manager and in my opinion well qualified. Have at it....

[Dick Allen]

Harold Baines and Joey Cora were bench coaches. This is baseball not splitting atoms. I'm pretty sure Sandy Alomar Jr. has seen just about every situation imaginable. The he was a first base coach thing means nothing to me. He's been around baseball all his life and he's a bright guy.

[iamshack]

Cleveland has been marching through young players too, and a lot of them stepped up this year. Not trying to knock Martinez here, just sayin'.

Indeed they did, but I think it's been more of the culture in TB than in Cleveland.

 

I don't know enough about Sandy or Martinez to really make the most informed decision, but just going off of what we do know, I just like what Martinez brings to the party a bit more.

[Balta1701]

Indeed they did, but I think it's been more of the culture in TB than in Cleveland.

 

I don't know enough about Sandy or Martinez to really make the most informed decision, but just going off of what we do know, I just like what Martinez brings to the party a bit more.

I dunno, cleve ands been in a selling mode since 07, and they've been trying to bring people along te whole time, Marte, Cabrera, Carmona, Choo, Santana, LaPorta, Perez, Masterson, probably 5 other guys I'm forgetting. The difference is that they haven't had a successful core in the way the rays have, and the reasons why are worth considering too.

[iamshack]

Harold Baines and Joey Cora were bench coaches. This is baseball not splitting atoms. I'm pretty sure Sandy Alomar Jr. has seen just about every situation imaginable. The he was a first base coach thing means nothing to me. He's been around baseball all his life and he's a bright guy.

So which is it, DA? Is it just baseball, or is it "just because you stand next to Maddon doesn't mean you are the next Joe Maddon..."?

 

You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit.

 

The "it's just baseball" line might sit with me better if we didn't just go through a few years of some head-scratchers.

 

I agree that Dave Martinez is probably not going to be Joe Maddon cloned, as the guy's brilliance extends well-beyond just the statistics (I think he's a freaking master motivator), but Maddon also strikes me as someone who would take the responsibility of mentoring a younger coach very seriously (just as he learned from Scoscia).

 

I think the model of mentor/student seems to work pretty well as far as coaching goes and we've seen it work across all sports. Signing Martinez up would probably be a pretty safe bet.