2011-12 White Sox off season catch all thread

[Milkman delivers]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw...sa=N&tab=wf

 

 

The second one.

 

Thanks, I gotta have it somewhere.

 

Holy f*** that is him. I always knew that voice sounded so familiar but couldn't figure it out.

 

Goosebumps every single time.

 

It's gotta say it on the box or something

[knightni]

Thanks, I gotta have it somewhere.

http://product.half.ebay.com/The-2005-Worl...704&tg=info

 

Hey look, brand new for $1.99!

[Rowand44]

Holy f*** that is him. I always knew that voice sounded so familiar but couldn't figure it out.

 

Goosebumps every single time.

It was talked about on here when the DVD was first made available. You sir are a disappointment.

[Milkman delivers]

http://product.half.ebay.com/The-2005-Worl...704&tg=info

 

Hey look, brand new for $1.99!

 

I'm sure it's at my family's house.

[southsider2k5]

It was talked about on here when the DVD was first made available. You sir are a disappointment.

 

To be fair, it has been six years, and he probably can't remember where he just put the remote control...

[southsider2k5]

http://www.chicagonow.com/white-sox-observ...hite-sox-notes/

 

FOUND: One Arnie Munoz...and more White Sox notes

By James Fegan, Wednesday at 7:55 am

 

Back in 2004, the White Sox went through a period commonly referred to as "5th starter hell", when they stretched into late June without a win from the last slot in the rotation.

 

In fairness, this team entered the year with Scott Shoeneweis as their No. 4 starter, and skipped spots on enough occasions to run out Mark Buehrle a career-high 35 times (for a career-high 245.1 IP). Perhaps the larger issue was that the rotation was planned out with the understanding that the offense would score 10 runs a game.

 

Yet this oddity captured the media and fans' attention as call-up after call-up was brought in and thrown to the wolves. By June 19th, Dan Wright, Felix Diaz, Neal Cotts, and Jon Rauch had all fallen by the wayside in ignominious fashion, the No. 5 slot had been skipped in the rotation three times in a row, and 22 year-old Arnie Munoz boasted promising enough stats in Double-A to earn himself a looksie.

 

What's the worst that could happen? It was only the friggin' Expos.

 

What followed was truly remarkable, not because Arnie miraculously ended the White Sox woes--heavens no--but because he brought them to a thunderingly gruesome climax.

 

Munoz had a rough enough time in his first inning of Major League, getting a few loud outs alongside matching doubles by Jamey Carrol and Carl Everett to score a run. But it was the 2nd inning in Montreal where things went to hell at a uniquely brisk pace.

 

It featured six hits, three walks (one intentional, who eventually scored), a hit batter, a wild pitch, and of courese, two separate home runs by Juan Rivera. In the middle of it all, Expos pitcher Tony Armas Jr. laid down a sac bunt. Only in National League ball do you get to see someone give up outs to a 22 year-old making his debut and throwing batting practice.

 

Munoz actually retired the Expos' #3 and #4 hitters to get out of the 3rd, but at that point, had thrown 91 pitches. First-year manager Ozzie Guillen decided to call it a day for the youngster, leaving him with a final line of 3 IP, 10 H, 11 ER, 2 HR, 3 BB, and 1 strikeout of the pitcher (Because Arnie did not generally miss the bats of major league hitters) for a Game Score of -7, the worst score for a debuting pitcher since 1920.

 

The notoriously strong-hitting, crap-pitching 2004 Sox rallied that day, and brought the game as close as 15-14 before ultimately falling 17-14, and one wonders if not for Munoz if that contest would have been remembered instead as "The Juan Uribe 7 RBI game" or "The time the White Sox scored 14 runs despite not having Magglio Ordonez, not starting Frank Thomas, and Carlos Lee going 0 for 6"

 

Munoz was bounced back to the minors after the game, and didn't return until September call-ups, where he was neither remarkable in a good way, nor in the way he had previously demonstrated. Arnie regularly operated in the 3.0 K/BB ratio range in Double-A Birmingham, but his mid-80's heat transformed him into a nibbler who couldn't keep his walk rate down in Triple-A. The White Sox were not about to promote him based off promising numbers in the Southern League again, and the kid who debuted at 17 years-old in Rookie ball never started another Major League contest, nor suited up for the big club in Chicago again.

 

In 2007, the Nationals (apparently impressed by what they saw first-hand in 2004) gave Munoz a September call-up that went preposterously terribly. He faced 32 batters, 15 of them reached base, 9 of them at Munoz' insistence, and two just touched them as they were passing around the diamond on a victory lap. When his prodigious walk problems followed him back to the minors in 2008, the Nationals released Munoz, and he disappeared from MLB and baseball altogether until spending 2010 in the Mexican Leagues.

 

Munoz managed to get through an entire 26 IP in 2010 without allowing a home run in Mexico, as Juan Rivera was nowhere to be found.

 

Clued in by a tweet from Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus, I found Munoz in Dominican Winter Ball pitching for the Aguilas Cibaenas. On this Tuesday evening he worked 1.2 IP, walking one, and apparently getting his five outs au naturale...which is to say that Munoz looks to still be a soft-tossing lefty who can't miss bats, as he's walked four and struck out none with a 10.12 ERA in 2.2 IP on the young season.

 

But hey, he's still only 29 year-old. His career is progressing at a Randy Williams-like pace.

[NorthSideSox72]

Bingo.

 

If Robin Ventura had interest in managing at any point in his life, he would have spent the last few years searching for a minor league gig in any capacity. With the Sox or Mets, Hell even Oklahoma St.

I'm sorry but this still makes no sense at all. IF he was talked into it, then he was talked into it. Its not like they drugged him and made him sign a contract. He also said he wanted to do this eventually, just seemed shocked at the timing. He didn't not want the job, he just was taken aback it happened so soon, and needed to discuss it with people - as anyone would.

 

If you want to say you preferred someone with more experience, I totally get that. But to say he didn't want the job is manifestly false, since he took it.

 

[Steve9347]

That Munoz article was completely pointless.

[witesoxfan]

That Munoz article was completely pointless.

 

But fun.

 

I'd also rather have that than Cowley's incessant rants against the Sox front office. At least pointless is better than stupid.

Edited October 27, 2011 by witesoxfan

[southsider2k5]

That Munoz article was completely pointless.

 

Its the off-season. Yank the kotex.

[Steve9347]

Yank the kotex.

That's pretty uncalled for... I read the Munoz article expecting some sort of payoff and got nothing. So stick your member into your own behind.

[Cali]

I'm sorry but this still makes no sense at all. IF he was talked into it, then he was talked into it. Its not like they drugged him and made him sign a contract. He also said he wanted to do this eventually, just seemed shocked at the timing. He didn't not want the job, he just was taken aback it happened so soon, and needed to discuss it with people - as anyone would.

 

If you want to say you preferred someone with more experience, I totally get that. But to say he didn't want the job is manifestly false, since he took it.

 

You kinda just made my point for me. I want a manager who is champing at the bit to take the job, Robin seemed tentative at best, which is fine, but then just don't take the job. And certainly don't tell people in interviews and press conferences that you had to be talked into it. Doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

And yes I would have preferred someone with more experience and more interest in taking over the manager position. There were better options. I have absolutely zero doubt in my mind that Dave Martinez and Sandy Alomar will have better managerial careers than Robin if only for the fact that I think they will manage way longer than Robin. I have my doubts Robin even lasts the 3 years he's been given, and if by some miracle he makes it all three years I wouldn't be shocked if he resigned instead of signing an extension.

[NorthSideSox72]

You kinda just made my point for me. I want a manager who is champing at the bit to take the job, Robin seemed tentative at best, which is fine, but then just don't take the job. And certainly don't tell people in interviews and press conferences that you had to be talked into it. Doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

And yes I would have preferred someone with more experience and more interest in taking over the manager position. There were better options. I have absolutely zero doubt in my mind that Dave Martinez and Sandy Alomar will have better managerial careers than Robin if only for the fact that I think they will manage way longer than Robin. I have my doubts Robin even lasts the 3 years he's been given, and if by some miracle he makes it all three years I wouldn't be shocked if he resigned instead of signing an extension.

Zero doubt? Come on now. You really think anyone can say for sure that he won't be good, or for sure that he will be? You can't know that, at all. Which is true of any candidate who hadn't managed a team before, including Martinez and Alomar.

 

[Iwritecode]

And certainly don't tell people in interviews and press conferences that you had to be talked into it. Doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

I'm pretty sure I've heard Robin himself say that he DID NOT have to be talked into it.

[Eminor3rd]

You guys are making way too big of a deal about the manager. The players respect him and he's not going to argue with KW. That's all that matters. He can't be worse than Ozzie at in-game strategy.

[southsider2k5]

You guys are making way too big of a deal about the manager. The players respect him and he's not going to argue with KW. That's all that matters. He can't be worse than Ozzie at in-game strategy.

 

Based off of his career, that probably isn't true.

[Harry Chappas]

In all seriousness if you are a good team in the AL the manager does nothing until the playoffs and in 2005 Guillen had to do virtually nothing.

 

In the AL your pitcher pitches until he is tired, your 9 best hitters are in the line-up so other than the LHP/LHH v RHP/RHH what does the manager do.

[Eminor3rd]

other than the LHP/LHH v RHP/RHH what does the manager do.

 

Wastes outs with bad steals and bunts.

 

EDIT: I'm agreeing with you

Edited October 27, 2011 by Eminor3rd

[Balta1701]

In all seriousness if you are a good team in the AL the manager does nothing until the playoffs and in 2005 Guillen had to do virtually nothing.

 

In the AL your pitcher pitches until he is tired, your 9 best hitters are in the line-up so other than the LHP/LHH v RHP/RHH what does the manager do.

If you watched the White Sox this year, you saw as plain as could be how much damage a manager could to...from the lack of preparation to open the season (2 years in a row) to the insistence on playing a certain type of ball, to a total unwillingness to adapt to or understand what his own pitchers could give.

 

Alternatively, I think that the 2005 Oz did a great job of setting his team up. They came out of ST as fired up as any team we've ever seen. The guys got enough rest during the year based on Ozzie's "Day off" rules (which were repealed after 2005, for some reason I can't figure out), and they reacted incredibly well when pressure was put on them.

 

I might have agreed with you more post 07-08...but man, last year...I usually am the one who defends the managerial moves even when they don't make sense, but that was just torture.

[witesoxfan]

That's pretty uncalled for... I read the Munoz article expecting some sort of payoff and got nothing. So stick your member into your own behind.

 

You know, I have been trying this for years, and it simply never works. Is there another way?

[Leonard Washington]

The idea that Ventura had to be "talked into it" is ridiculous. He was presented with a career decision that was undoubtedly unexpected. He has a family. Of course he's going to have to mull it over and discuss it with his loved ones. If he didn't want the job, he wouldn't have it. He talked it out, gave it some thought, and decided he wanted it. I'd prefer that over someone who jumped at it without the thought, no? In his spot wouldn't all of you do the same?

 

I understand the frustration over the decision to hire him. I feel some of it too. But let's not be Red Sox fans here.....be reasonable.

[GreatScott82]

Okay so I've read a couple of things this past month in regards to the direction of our White Sox. Are we on the verge of a rebuilding process or do we maintain the veterans and mix in a few more youngsters to the every day line up? Im a little confused to the direction of the team right now.

 

Lets look at this position by position:

1) 1B- Paul Konerko (White Sox King)

2) 2B- Gordon Beckham- Can a new coaching staff help him out? His defense did improve at 2B which was encouraging.

3) SS- Alexie Ramirez- Gold Glove potential, still young and will likely to continue to improve.

4) 3B- Brent Morel- Has potential to be a solid every day player. Anybody see a Crede similarity there in development?

5) C- AJ Pierzynski- AJ isn't the same catcher he used to be, but he still knows how to call a game and contribute offensively. Hmm what about Flowers?

6) LF- Dayan Viciedo- The Cuban Tank will FINALLY be able to play every day.

7) CF- Alex Rios- Is there hope? Can he hit at least .250 next year?

8) RF- Carlos Quentin- (Prime Trade Bait)- I just don't see a fit for him here anymore.

9) DH- Adam Dunn (We are stuck with this lug) - Lets hope and pray he will be working his ass off on his body and swing this winter. He the organization that.

 

I think KW will likely look to upgrade the RF or CF position by attempting to find a younger/ faster player who can potentially be our leadoff hitter. Shifting Rios to RF is an option if he finds a better suited CF via trade.

 

Starting Rotation:

1) Buerhle (Yes. I think he re-signs to a 2 year deal)

2) Floyd

3) Danks (Prime Trade Bait with Sale being inserted into the rotation)

4) Peavy

5) Sale

6) Humbar or Stewart to battle for the 5th spot in spring training.

 

I think Danks and Quentin can fill some holes in our lineup via trade this winter. Re-Signing Buerhle would be a smart move.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I think KW will likely look to upgrade the RF or CF position by attempting to find a younger/ faster player who can potentially be our leadoff hitter. Shifting Rios to RF is an option if he finds a better suited CF via trade.

His name is Alejandro De Aza.

 

Like him or not...that guy has flat out earned a shot.

[flavum]

We're stuck with Rios and Dunn for three years, so they might as well bring back most of the same team and try to turn it around with new leadership.

 

Re-sign Buehrle if they can, trade Floyd or Danks for pitching prospects. Trade Quentin for pitching prospects.

 

Rotation: Buehrle, Peavy, Danks/Floyd, Humber, Sale

Bullpen: Axelrod and/or Stewart, Reed, Ohman, Crain, Thornton, Santos

 

Lineup: De Aza, Ramirez, Viciedo, Konerko, Dunn, Rios, Pierzynski, Morel, Beckham

Bench: Lillibridge, Flowers

 

Lillibridge and Flowers will basically be platoon players, and they can add a veteran RH outfielder.

 

Maybe Beckham or Morel can hit their way into the 2-hole.

 

What I like about this team is that the expectations will be down, and they can find out If De Aza is a major leaguer, and if Sale can start in the big leagues without having to be the savior. If it works, great. If it doesn't, you weren't expecting it anyway.

 

[Milkman delivers]

I can't believe people want to make Humber a swing man/reliever/6th starter. The man flat-out earned a spot last season.