knightni Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) Thanks Ollie! Now to sports. The Marlins lost their 29th game in a row after manager Ozzie Guillen had Reyes bunt with 2 outs and no one on base. His only comment, "Yoo know I like the buntin'. I'm tha f***in' manager; I do what I want." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) That is total bulls***. Maybe he couldn't inspire these zillionaires (like Robin is going to be able to do that, sure) but he wanted to win. The team simply sucked and frankly the players looked like they could not give a s***. Ozzie didn't want to win? Right. And Mark wants to play for him. And the Marlins want him. Smart people hired him. But he doesn't want to win. Some statements from the anti-Ozzies amaze me. Ozzie may have given up on those bums who took the field every day. That may be the one bad thing about having a former player manage. He can tell a team that doesn't care and doesn't have "it." With Robin's personality he will do no better in that regard. It's on the players. THEY SUCKED. The dude definitely made some bizarre lineup decisions late in the season when we were still only a handful of games back. And then, instead of focusing on the division race, he was talking about his contract status and how great he is. If you are not willing to concede complete apathy, then he was just criminally bad at his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) So Greg let me get this right. Whenever Joe Cowley praises Ozzie and bashes KW you think he is 100 percent correct. However, when he says that Ozzie might have been making moves to spite KW last year without teams best interest in mind, he is wrong? Like Rios? Ozzie pretty much backed my position on Rios that got me ripped on here last year. KW asked Ozzie "why are you playing Rios when u got DeAza?" And Ozzie said, "Why did u sign Rios to begin with?" I think Ozzie played him because he earns a zillion bucks and is on the roster. That's what you do. Maybe that's the one flaw in having a former rich player be a manager. They do think like players more than front office personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 04:52 AM) Like Rios? Ozzie pretty much backed my position on Rios that got me ripped on here last year. KW asked Ozzie "why are you playing Rios when u got DeAza?" And Ozzie said, "Why did u sign Rios to begin with?" I think Ozzie played him because he earns a zillion bucks and is on the roster. That's what you do. Maybe that's the one flaw in having a former rich player be a manager. They do think like players more than front office personnel. Checkmate...instead of doing what was the right thing for the team, Ozzie tried to prove a point instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 09:52 PM) Like Rios? Ozzie pretty much backed my position on Rios that got me ripped on here last year. KW asked Ozzie "why are you playing Rios when u got DeAza?" And Ozzie said, "Why did u sign Rios to begin with?" I think Ozzie played him because he earns a zillion bucks and is on the roster. That's what you do. Maybe that's the one flaw in having a former rich player be a manager. They do think like players more than front office personnel. Ozzie shouldnt care what a player makes, he should care about winning and putting the best team on the field. If anything, the GM would care more about the players making more money playing more, but KW told Ozzie not to care about that yet Ozzie still did that. Why? Because Ozzie clearly wanted to do the 180 of what KW wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 04:54 AM) Checkmate...instead of doing what was the right thing for the team, Ozzie tried to prove a point instead. Yeah, but I don't think he was playing Rios just to piss off Kenny. I truly believe former players like Ozzie think in the world order of things you play the guys making the huge money. I'm not sure why he finally sat down Dunn for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 04:57 AM) Yeah, but I don't think he was playing Rios just to piss off Kenny. I truly believe former players like Ozzie think in the world order of things you play the guys making the huge money. I'm not sure why he finally sat down Dunn for the most part. Joe Cowley all but said he did. Quite convenient for you to decide now is the time to question if what Cowley is saying is accurate. Greg, it still baffles me that you can support a manager that flat out quit on his team. Edited December 9, 2011 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:57 PM) Ozzie shouldnt care what a player makes, he should care about winning and putting the best team on the field. If anything, the GM would care more about the players making more money playing more, but KW told Ozzie not to care about that yet Ozzie still did that. Why? Because Ozzie clearly wanted to do the 180 of what KW wanted. Exactly. Usually it is the GM asking the manager to play guys based on salary so they can try to move someone or justify their salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) Joe Cowley all but said he did. One good reason to not believe it. A second reason... nobody throws a season just to make a point. That's beyond ridiculous. Makes for great SunTimes articles to inflame the masses and attract readers... but simply.not.realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) One good reason to not believe it. A second reason... nobody throws a season just to make a point. That's beyond ridiculous. Makes for great SunTimes articles to inflame the masses and attract readers... but simply.not.realistic. Except...Ozzie did. It makes sense for him. He got a 4 year deal with a raise from the Marlins. He destroyed any chance of salvaging the club that Kenny had, but didn't have to deal with it. Ozzie threw the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:21 PM) Except...Ozzie did. It makes sense for him. He got a 4 year deal with a raise from the Marlins. He destroyed any chance of salvaging the club that Kenny had, but didn't have to deal with it. Ozzie threw the season. I don't buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 09:57 PM) Yeah, but I don't think he was playing Rios just to piss off Kenny. I truly believe former players like Ozzie think in the world order of things you play the guys making the huge money. I'm not sure why he finally sat down Dunn for the most part. In other words, you're contradicting yourself. You'll honestly come up with anything at all to justify the things Ozzie does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 03:59 AM) Joe Cowley all but said he did. Quite convenient for you to decide now is the time to question if what Cowley is saying is accurate. Greg, it still baffles me that you can support a manager that flat out quit on his team. QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 05:11 AM) In other words, you're contradicting yourself. You'll honestly come up with anything at all to justify the things Ozzie does. 1.) I still think former successful, wealthy players who manage think differently. We'll see if Robin plays Rios/Dunn all season as well if they suck again. Robin is mighty rich, just like Oz. 2.) I never said I had all the answers. I do think folks who hated Ozzie Guillen are going to be pissed all season as Robin learns on the job. Ozzie now is a veteran manager moving into his second managerial job. He'll prolly dominate as LaRussa did after learning in Chicago. Edited December 9, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Sooo if OZ threw the season by starting Rios does that mean if De Aza outperforms Rios in spring training De Aza should get the start in CF? If not is Ventura throwing the season by starting Rios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) I am really tired of the idiots here. I don't believe for a second that many posters here are posting genuinely. Edited December 9, 2011 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 02:13 AM) I am really tired of the idiots here. I don't believe for a second that many posters here are posting genuinely. When your team does not appear to have an obvious direction, there are going to be a lot of varying opinions about where we ought to go and how we got here in the first place. I am certain everyone is sincere, but very few see eye to eye on everything. It was a lot simpler a year ago when the sentiment was "WOO DUNN!!!!!!!" and, like, two people saying "Boo, he strikes out too much and is an NL-only hitter". Also, that's a mighty high horse you got there, partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:43 AM) When your team does not appear to have an obvious direction, there are going to be a lot of varying opinions about where we ought to go and how we got here in the first place. I am certain everyone is sincere, but very few see eye to eye on everything. It was a lot simpler a year ago when the sentiment was "WOO DUNN!!!!!!!" and, like, two people saying "Boo, he strikes out too much and is an NL-only hitter". Also, that's a mighty high horse you got there, partner. Those aren't the types of posts that bother me. Its the posts in which the poster blatantly overlooks something obvious to the rest of the board and masquerades their opinion as logical merely to annoy those with a brain and a love of this team. I don't think its mighty high horse of me to be against this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) One good reason to not believe it. A second reason... nobody throws a season just to make a point. That's beyond ridiculous. Makes for great SunTimes articles to inflame the masses and attract readers... but simply.not.realistic. This is Ozzie's biggest backer saying this. That is what is the most alarming about it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:13 AM) I am really tired of the idiots here. I don't believe for a second that many posters here are posting genuinely. Substitute "Idiots" for "people who disagree with me" and your post makes much more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:35 PM) Substitute "Idiots" for "people who disagree with me" and your post makes much more sense. No that's not true. I don't agree with you often, and I don't think you are an idiot. Edited December 9, 2011 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 07:37 PM) No that's not true. I don't agree with you often, and I don't think you are an idiot. Well, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:45 AM) Sooo if OZ threw the season by starting Rios does that mean if De Aza outperforms Rios in spring training De Aza should get the start in CF? If not is Ventura throwing the season by starting Rios? If the goal is rebuilding, then Rios needs to play everyday until he can be traded. If the goal is winning games, then a player should only play if they play well enough to beat the next in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 01:51 PM) If the goal is winning games, then a player should only play if they play well enough to beat the next in line. Regardless of the salary - like Williams told Ozzie last year... I doubt that Ventura would have disrespected an order like Ozzie did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantl916 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 There goes Cahill to the Dbacks. One more chip has fallen. Yankees, Rangers, Red, Red Sox and maybe Marlins and Nationals still looking for pitching. Darvish, Shields, Neimann/Wade Davis, Garza, Gio, Danks, Floyd names being floated. You figure eventually someones coming to KW for a SP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 04:07 PM) There goes Cahill to the Dbacks. One more chip has fallen. Yankees, Rangers, Red, Red Sox and maybe Marlins and Nationals still looking for pitching. Darvish, Shields, Neimann/Wade Davis, Garza, Gio, Danks, Floyd names being floated. You figure eventually someones coming to KW for a SP Think the A's are willing to deal Cahill and Gio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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