2011-12 White Sox off season catch all thread

[elrockinMT]

Don't make the mistake of taking September and trying to project it for an entire year.

 

 

You hope for the best from Morel. But, you are right and folks should remember the Josh Fields thing

[SoxFan1]

You hope for the best from Morel. But, you are right and folks should remember the Josh Fields thing

Because something similar has happened in the past doesn't mean it will happen again. I happen to think Morel will turn into a nice player.

[fathom]

Because something similar has happened in the past doesn't mean it will happen again. I happen to think Morel will turn into a nice player.

 

The thing is, Morel's glove can be good enough where he doesn't have to display massive power in order to be a useful player. If he can hit .270 with 15 homers, he'll be very useful.

[southsider2k5]

You hope for the best from Morel. But, you are right and folks should remember the Josh Fields thing

 

Fields is no where near the same sort of player as Morel.

[SoxFan1]

The thing is, Morel's glove can be good enough where he doesn't have to display massive power in order to be a useful player. If he can hit .270 with 15 homers, he'll be very useful.

Exactly. I agree with you completely. And I think if he'll be batting out of the 8 or 9 spot all season with little pressure to produce, he could be a pleasant surprise. I'm quite interested in seeing how he develops this season.

[Steve9347]

The thing is, Morel's glove can be good enough where he doesn't have to display massive power in order to be a useful player. If he can hit .270 with 15 homers, he'll be very useful.

Not as a starter, given he doesn't take many walks that's a pretty big hole and below replacement level.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Not as a starter, given he doesn't take many walks that's a pretty big hole and below replacement level.

 

You're underestimating the lack of talent at 3B today. It's borderline SS shallow. You've got Longoria, Zimmerman, Beltre. Those are the elite. Then you've got guys like Sandoval (long as his weight is under control), Youk, a declining Pay-rod and Aramis. Brett Lawrie should be a good one. But the position sucks. If Morel can hit .275-.280, 15 HR, .310 OBP - something along those lines - with + defense at third, you're doing well.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Jordan4life

[fathom]

Not as a starter, given he doesn't take many walks that's a pretty big hole and below replacement level.

 

As a supporting player on a team batting 8th or 9th in the non-steroid era, he'd be starting caliber.

[fathom]

Exactly. I agree with you completely. And I think if he'll be batting out of the 8 or 9 spot all season with little pressure to produce, he could be a pleasant surprise. I'm quite interested in seeing how he develops this season.

 

Maybe the best thing to happen all last season for the Sox was Morel's last month of the season when he started trying to actually hit the ball with authority. He has a ton of power when he pulls the ball, but as of now, he doesn't have enough power to the opposite field to be anything but a singles hitter if he keeps the approach he had for the majority of the season.

[SoxFan1]

Maybe the best thing to happen all last season for the Sox was Morel's last month of the season when he started trying to actually hit the ball with authority. He has a ton of power when he pulls the ball, but as of now, he doesn't have enough power to the opposite field to be anything but a singles hitter if he keeps the approach he had for the majority of the season.

If he keeps his late-season approach, the gap power will show up naturally. He's got a ways to go, but there is reason for optimism. He's got a great person to reference in his manager too.

[Steve9347]

You're underestimating the lack of talent at 3B today. It's borderline SS shallow. You've got Longoria, Zimmerman, Beltre. Those are the elite. Then you've got guys like Sandoval (long as his weight is under control), Youk, a declining Pay-rod and Aramis. Brett Lawrie should be a good one. But the position sucks. If Morel can hit .275-.280, 15 HR, .310 OBP - something along those lines - with + defense at third, you're doing well.

You might have actually posted something not completely retarded today. That's a big "if", but also a good point.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You might have actually posted something not completely retarded today. That's a big "if", but also a good point.

 

You just said the R word.

[Steve9347]

You just said the R word.

poopy poop eat my poop

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Because something similar has happened in the past doesn't mean it will happen again. I happen to think Morel will turn into a nice player.

I do also. I think he could have 25-30 HR potential. Not only did he come alive and hit HR's in September he also averaged the longest HR's on the Sox.

[Balta1701]

I do also. I think he could have 25-30 HR potential. Not only did he come alive and hit HR's in September he also averaged the longest HR's on the Sox.

So, I saw him in the minors a couple times he had legit line drive power, whole lot of line drives, but everything was hard doubles rather than HR. My guess for him might be a 15 HR guy, but who also can load up on doubles in the gap/over the head of the OF's.

 

Of course, might well be that he adds some muscle from that point and that's enough to push him to bigger power than I was expecting from him.

[Jerksticks]

30 HRs. Same for Beckham. 30HR brothers. 105 Wins.

[MiddleCoastBias]

MLB Network was doing a countdown of the top 100 players in baseball yesterday (it may have been a rerun but it was new to me). They did a little breakout session to discuss who they thought would have a big bounce-back year. In that discussion, Harold Reynolds predicted Adam Dunn to have 40 HRs this year.

[hi8is]

MLB Network was doing a countdown of the top 100 players in baseball yesterday (it may have been a rerun but it was new to me). They did a little breakout session to discuss who they thought would have a big bounce-back year. In that discussion, Harold Reynolds predicted Adam Dunn to have 40 HRs this year.

Didn't Harold predict the same thing last year? 40 HR from Dunn?

 

Hell, I did.

[Balta1701]

There's plenty of stuff in here that makes me think "this writer doesn't know anything about this team", but here's some blogger writing about where Ventura and the Sox might go this year.

But last year’s club showed some glaring weaknesses. On offense, the 2011 squad had only two regulars compile an OPS greater than .728 (the league OPS was .730) or over a 100 OPS+. There were 22 players with more than 400 plate appearances and a sub-.660 OPS during 2011, and the Sox had five of them. The team finished no higher than seventh in the AL in any offensive category. It were also the third-oldest offense in the league. On defense, committing the second-fewest errors in the AL couldn’t mask the lack of range afield, as White Sox' Defensive Efficiency ranked third from bottom. If you reached first base against the Sox, you ran, as they threw out a league-low 22 percent of stolen-base attempts. The pitching helped keep some of the pressure off of the defense, as their 7.5 K/9 and 2.78 K/BB led the AL. But they still ended up with a league-average 4.10 ERA.

 

In 2012, the club will face some major hurdles if it wishes to improve on last season's performance or even just to keep pace with it. The starting rotation must replacing staff ace/workhorse Mark Buehrle’s 200-plus innings. Buehrle’s 2,425 frames since 2001 are 60 more than anyone else. John Danks, who pitched better than his 4.33 ERA might suggest, assumes the No. 1 starter position, with 22-year-old Chris Sale stepping into the rotation. Philip Humber pitched more than 21 2/3 innings in the majors for the first time in 2011, by 141 innings; his BABIP was a low .276, and something may have to give in 2012. In the bullpen, Matt Thornton has been the ChiSox primary set-up man for six years, and had a shot to close last year but lost it; with the departure of Sergio Santos via trade, can the 35-year-old Thornton step up, despite a sharp drop in his K/9 rate last year (12.0 to 9.5)?

 

On offense, there is a growing concern over second baseman Gordon Beckham. The former first-round draft pick has seen his OPS slide from .807 to .695 to .633, though his defense has improved at second base. Third baseman Brent Morel may not be the answer at the hot corner, as his profile (a .250 doubles hitter with few walks and below-average range) is lacking for the position. Catcher A.J. Pierzynski is 35 and closing in on 1,500 games behind the plate. His 120 games at catcher last year were his lowest since 2004, and he threw out only 20 percent of runners attempting to steal, below his career mark of 24 percent. There have been only 30 player-seasons in the past 50 years where a 35-or-older catcher has managed at least a .728 OPS (as Pierzynski did last year).

 

Then we come to the two biggest enigmas, Adam Dunn and Alex Rios. Everyone is well aware of Dunn’s legendary collapse in 2011, including his .064 batting average versus lefties. With three years and $44 million to go, can new hitting coach Jeff Manto get "The Big Donkey" standing upright again? Also, while Rios will never truly be worth the $21 million he is drawing each year through 2014, the Sox hope for something closer to the .284/.334/.457 line of 2010, rather than the .227/.265/.328 slash of 2011. They’re moving him to left field this season, where he has played one game his entire career.

 

Will Ventura exceed expectations?

 

So, Robin Ventura will certainly have his hands full (and tied) with a team that is, at best, in transition and, at worst, about to fall off a cliff. If he can move the White Sox in the right direction, it will be yet another extraordinary performance, as impressive as any of his grand slams. Given his history as a player, and the opportunity to establish a new atmosphere in the clubhouse, I think there is at least a chance he can pull it off.

[justBLAZE]

Gavin Floyd trade rumors are back (Jays, Red Sawks)

[Balta1701]

Gavin Floyd trade rumors are back (Jays, Red Sawks)

A few weeks ago it was unlikely, now it's not happening. The White Sox aren't breaking up their rotation and leaving themselves with no 5th starter right now.

 

If someone came out and tore up camp unexpectedly like Castro, Axelrod, or Molina, then maybe it could be plausible, but you wouldn't see that for 4 weeks.

[southsider2k5]

A few weeks ago it was unlikely, now it's not happening. The White Sox aren't breaking up their rotation and leaving themselves with no 5th starter right now.

 

If someone came out and tore up camp unexpectedly like Castro, Axelrod, or Molina, then maybe it could be plausible, but you wouldn't see that for 4 weeks.

 

Or there is a reason that we heard all of the articles about Molina making the team...

[daggins]

Rios is earning 12.5M a year and not 21M, which means a return to a ~3WAR player would make him worth his salary. Also, since when does Morel have below average range?

 

This is a major problem with ESPN in particular and sports writing sites in general - there's always this notion that they have to make the facts fit the narrative they're pushing.

[witesoxfan]

Rios is earning 12.5M a year and not 21M, which means a return to a ~3WAR player would make him worth his salary. Also, since when does Morel have below average range?

 

This is a major problem with ESPN in particular and sports writing sites in general - there's always this notion that they have to make the facts fit the narrative they're pushing.

 

It's just a terrible article all around with a writer who did no fact checking whatsoever.

[knightni]

Well, looks like the off-season is finally over - starting tomorrow!