DirtySox Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 11:42 PM) Think the A's are willing to deal Cahill and Gio? Yep. Good chance Gio is gone too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 12:40 AM) Yep. Good chance Gio is gone too. Someone has to meet that price first. I do think someone will meet the huge demands that the A's have, but it will be an overpay when it's all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) D'Backs GM Kevin Towers told reporters, including Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic, that he's looking to fortify his bullpen and perhaps add another starting pitcher. Interest in the A's Gio Gonzalez and Andrew Bailey is "intense," a Major League source tells Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com. The Rangers, Blue Jays, Nationals and Marlins are targeting Gonzalez, while the Red Sox are after Bailey, according to Rosenthal. The Rangers and Reds like both players. Hopefully the losers get a bit disparate and the price on Danks / Thornton / Floyd goes up. Edited December 10, 2011 by hi8is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehugeunit Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) There goes Cahill to the Dbacks. One more chip has fallen. Yankees, Rangers, Red, Red Sox and maybe Marlins and Nationals still looking for pitching. Darvish, Shields, Neimann/Wade Davis, Garza, Gio, Danks, Floyd names being floated. You figure eventually someones coming to KW for a SP There's also Edwin Jackson out there, who gets overlooked. Oswalt as well. I think the Nats land one of Oswalt and Jackson. Red Sox are my pick for Joe Saunders. Certainly the SP market is bloated right now. I can't recall seeing it this flush with options. Edited December 10, 2011 by TheHugeUnit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 12:40 AM) Yep. Good chance Gio is gone too. Yep, welcome to perpetual rebuilding Oakland style. You get young players and once they get good, you dump them for more young players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) Yep, welcome to perpetual rebuilding Oakland style. You get young players and once they get good, you dump them for more young players. Yeah but you get to see prospects, and for a lot of people on this board, that's a better option than watching your team win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 09:59 AM) Yeah but you get to see prospects, and for a lot of people on this board, that's a better option than watching your team win. Or you could spend 120+ million on an old, unathletic, played out roster. But hey, at least they're familiar names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 10:17 AM) Or you could spend 120+ million on an old, unathletic, played out roster. But hey, at least they're familiar names. Salivating over A ball rosters isn't much fun. The fans in Pittsburgh, KC and Baltimore are probably sick about hearing of prospects. I'm sure the few fans left in Oakland are getting a little sick of getting prospects, developing them, then dealing them for some more wondering if the cycle will ever stop. One poster thought the Sox should be more like the Rays. Apparently he didn't realize how bad for how long the Rays had to be to get to their current position. The fact is most who want this do not have the patience for it. Gordon Beckham played in the minor leagues a very short time. Yet it hasn't taken long for many to call him a bust. I don't have the patience for it. I want to get to the middle of winter with some hope on my mind, knowing that chances are I will be dissappointed at some point, but the 2 or so times a decade I'm not, makes it well worth it. Going into seasons with no hope isn't going to be good for business. Milkman will be there. He'll probably have his own personal vendors. Edited December 10, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Some words from the chairman himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 10:34 AM) Some words from the chairman himself. "He gave us a chance to keep him and I'm sure he would've taken less money to come back," Reinsdorf said of Buehrle. "He just didn't fit into our plans. That's the thing. You can't let personal feelings for players stand in the way of letting the general manager do what he feels is right for the team." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 10:30 AM) Salivating over A ball rosters isn't much fun. The fans in Pittsburgh, KC and Baltimore are probably sick about hearing of prospects. I'm sure the few fans left in Oakland are getting a little sick of getting prospects, developing them, then dealing them for some more wondering if the cycle will ever stop. One poster thought the Sox should be more like the Rays. Apparently he didn't realize how bad for how long the Rays had to be to get to their current position. The fact is most who want this do not have the patience for it. Gordon Beckham played in the minor leagues a very short time. Yet it hasn't taken long for many to call him a bust. I don't have the patience for it. I want to get to the middle of winter with some hope on my mind, knowing that chances are I will be dissappointed at some point, but the 2 or so times a decade I'm not, makes it well worth it. Going into seasons with no hope isn't going to be good for business. Milkman will be there. He'll probably have his own personal vendors. Losing period isn't much fun. You bring up the Pirates, Royals and Orioles? I counter with the Mets, Cubs and Dodgers. You seem to be content with losing as long as the names on the roster are recognizable (I'm canceling my season ticket package because I can't watch Mark Buehrle throw every five days; who cares if we're perpetually stuck in no-man's land). The Rays aren't where they are simply because of high draft picks from five years ago. That's the lazy/easy way to look at it. There were they are because they're a top-flight organization from top-to-bottom. They scout better than any other team. They pick up dirt-cheap impact talent better than any other team. They know when it's time to part with guys (Kazmir when he was done, Garza when he was getting expensive) and not lose anything because they're always planning ahead. They preach defense, baserunning and execute both better than any other team. All this while dealing with the Yankees and Red Sox. The game has changed over the last five years and the Sox have failed miserably at adapting to that change. They've dismissed the draft/LA; made multiple short-sighted trades for non-impact talent or past their prime vets; took on extremely hefty contracts in years and money for guys with serious question marks and here they are. It didn't have to be this way. But it is now. Forgive me if I choose to want to see a new M.O. For you, just believing there's a chance going into the season is enough. I've seen enough fail over the last five years where that is no longer good enough for me. Edited December 10, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 10:30 AM) Salivating over A ball rosters isn't much fun. The fans in Pittsburgh, KC and Baltimore are probably sick about hearing of prospects. I'm sure the few fans left in Oakland are getting a little sick of getting prospects, developing them, then dealing them for some more wondering if the cycle will ever stop. One poster thought the Sox should be more like the Rays. Apparently he didn't realize how bad for how long the Rays had to be to get to their current position. The fact is most who want this do not have the patience for it. Gordon Beckham played in the minor leagues a very short time. Yet it hasn't taken long for many to call him a bust. I don't have the patience for it. I want to get to the middle of winter with some hope on my mind, knowing that chances are I will be dissappointed at some point, but the 2 or so times a decade I'm not, makes it well worth it. Going into seasons with no hope isn't going to be good for business. Milkman will be there. He'll probably have his own personal vendors. That'd be awesome. And let's not pretend that the Rays got to where they are simply by losing and getting awesome picks. They devoted a lot of resources to finding and developing talent. I'm sure we're going to be hearing a lot about the Royals, Pirates, and Orioles for some time. I'll just have to get used to that. They're the epitome of failure, so they're the stock argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 11:15 AM) That'd be awesome. And let's not pretend that the Rays got to where they are simply by losing and getting awesome picks. They devoted a lot of resources to finding and developing talent. I'm sure we're going to be hearing a lot about the Royals, Pirates, and Orioles for some time. I'll just have to get used to that. They're the epitome of failure, so they're the stock argument. The Rangers are another prime example of the impact a top-flight front office can have. How many top-10 picks have they collected the last 6-7 years? But like you said, it's easier for the anti-rebuild squad to cite the worst-case scenarios. It's funny to me. With Rios, Peavy and Dunn still here, there won't be a full-blown rebuild regardless. PK and AJ are still here. The anti-rebuild guys can simply go into next year hoping and praying that Peavy goes circa '07 and makes 30+ starts (lol at that), Rios FINALLY lives up to his tools/talent (double lol at that), and Adam Dunn remembers how to not be the worst baseball player to ever live. Even with Buehrle, all those things would have to happen for there to be any chance at competing at all. That should be enough for some people. If all those things happen, they should be right in the thick of it. KW will dive into what's left from a pathetic farm system and go get some past his prime, expensive vet to 'put us over the top'. Same M.O of the last 10 years. The anti-rebuild guys are happy because that's familiar and what they know. Edited December 10, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 11:15 AM) That'd be awesome. And let's not pretend that the Rays got to where they are simply by losing and getting awesome picks. They devoted a lot of resources to finding and developing talent. I'm sure we're going to be hearing a lot about the Royals, Pirates, and Orioles for some time. I'll just have to get used to that. They're the epitome of failure, so they're the stock argument. I'm looking forward to the rebuild. It's long overdue and time to try a different approach. I eagerly await all the moaning from the posters who had stated with 100% confidence that a rebuild will never happen with the White Sox. Seems to finally be a reality. Let's also note that this didn't have to be if Kenny/Jerry and the organization changed with the times. The growing importance in amateur talent, scouting, and providing from within has been evident over the years, yet the GM and owner treat the draft and the farm system as an afterthought. It's finally caught up them. Time to get back to basics, and if it hurts for a while, so be it. Edited December 10, 2011 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I agree with both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 10:56 AM) Losing period isn't much fun. You bring up the Pirates, Royals and Orioles? I counter with the Mets, Cubs and Dodgers. You seem to be content with losing as long as the names on the roster are recognizable (I'm canceling my season ticket package because I can't watch Mark Buehrle throw every five days; who cares if we're perpetually stuck in no-man's land). The Rays aren't where they are simply because of high draft picks from five years ago. That's the lazy/easy way to look at it. There were they are because they're a top-flight organization from top-to-bottom. They scout better than any other team. They pick up dirt-cheap impact talent better than any other team. They know when it's time to part with guys (Kazmir when he was done, Garza when he was getting expensive) and not lose anything because they're always planning ahead. They preach defense, baserunning and execute both better than any other team. All this while dealing with the Yankees and Red Sox. The game has changed over the last five years and the Sox have failed miserably at adapting to that change. They've dismissed the draft/LA; made multiple short-sighted trades for non-impact talent or past their prime vets; took on extremely hefty contracts in years and money for guys with serious question marks and here they are. It didn't have to be this way. But it is now. Forgive me if I choose to want to see a new M.O. For you, just believing there's a chance going into the season is enough. I've seen enough fail over the last five years where that is no longer good enough for me. Since KW has been the GM, the Sox have made the playoffs twice. The Mets only have made it once in that time. The Cubs have made it 3 times, the Dodgers 4 times. If KW made the playoffs 4 times in 11 seasons, most wouldn't complain. Edited December 10, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 01:34 PM) Since KW has been the GM, the Sox have made the playoffs twice. The Mets only have made it once in that time. The Cubs have made it 3 times, the Dodgers 4 times. If KW made the playoffs 4 times in 11 seasons, most wouldn't complain. And look at the state those franchises are in right now? They spent their millions and millions and millions and won nothing (not even a single WS appearance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 The thing is if Sale is a #2 starter and Molina a #3 the rebuilding will be a lot quicker than people think. Speaking of Sale, I think it'd be a good idea to approach him with a long-term contract offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyAcosta41 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 "I have to let the general manager do what makes the most sense or I can't hold him accountable," Reinsdorf said. "If we kept all the players I liked personally, we'd be a lot worse team over the years. There comes a time when you have to move on." "The Chairman" was talking about why it was acceptable for KW to decide it was time to let Buehrle move on. Accountability, huh? Well, there is also a time when you have to move on with your GM. I can't understand what would make ownership trust reloading, rebuilding, rewhatevering to the architect of today's, umm, unstable structure (particularly, if as reported, KW himself offered to step-down). Loyalty is a good thing, but like most good things, too much of it can stop being a good thing. Fresh blood and fresh vision are also good things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) The thing is if Sale is a #2 starter and Molina a #3 the rebuilding will be a lot quicker than people think. Speaking of Sale, I think it'd be a good idea to approach him with a long-term contract offer. He's already gotten through a full season and a half. It's already to the point where it's not that sensible for him to sign that Matt Moore kind of deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) Speaking of Sale, I think it'd be a good idea to approach him with a long-term contract offer. And, why would Sale accept the long term contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 02:30 PM) And, why would Sale accept the long term contract? Because pitchers do get hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) He's already gotten through a full season and a half. It's already to the point where it's not that sensible for him to sign that Matt Moore kind of deal. It wasn't sensible for Moore to sign his deal either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 04:16 PM) It wasn't sensible for Moore to sign his deal either. Yeah it was, he guarantees himself $14 million even if he gets hurt, it would have taken him 5 years to get that kind of money. The time to do that with Sale was last year, but we insisted that he needed to go into the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2011 -> 03:18 PM) Yeah it was, he guarantees himself $14 million even if he gets hurt, it would have taken him 5 years to get that kind of money. The time to do that with Sale was last year, but we insisted that he needed to go into the bullpen. You're against signing him for the next five years? Edited December 10, 2011 by Marty34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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