2011-12 White Sox off season catch all thread

[EvilJester99]

Kenny Williams has lost a hell of a lot of chips the last couple years, including to Torotno a few weeks ago.

Believe me.. I don't have a lot of faith in KW to get a great deal..certainly he wouldn't have gotten as much from the Reds like that. I am just hoping the market helps him get a good deal if he does deal.

[pktmotion]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/reds...r-pitching.html

 

I wonder if a Danks for Bailey and Mesoraco might still be in play?

 

One can dream.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm gonna keep hoping you guys are right and I'm wrong. The Santos deal has not raised my hopes.

 

 

Kenny Williams has lost a hell of a lot of chips the last couple years, including to Torotno a few weeks ago.

 

 

Its pretty obvious that Paddy, the scout we got from Toronto, really likes this guy and believed he was worth Santos and thats why that happened so quick. I believe "the guys" are right in that the right thing to do was wait. I think nows the time, I believe danks will be dealt in the next week or 2. That Cincy trade gave gms leverage that wasnt out there before.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/reds...r-pitching.html

 

I wonder if a Danks for Bailey and Mesoraco might still be in play?

 

One can dream.

 

No not want. I'd rather keep proding the Yankees/Blue Jays to see what package they are willing to offer.

[hi8is]

Let's recap... shall we?

 

After the San Diego Padres pull off a 4 for 1 swap of Ace starting pitcher Matt Latos with the Cincinnati Reds, the trade market is starting to heat up. The bar for starting pitching looks to be set high in that the Reds gave up not only Alonso, but also a nice trio in Grandal, Volquez, and Boxburger.

 

So, in addition to the Reds - who else may have interest in Danks or Floyd?

 

Let's see...

1.) Rangers

2.) Yankees

3.) Red Sox

4.) Blue Jays

5.) Washington

6.) Mets

7.) Marlins

8.) Orioles

 

Take one off that list with Darvish and the Jays.

 

So, that's 7 teams that are bidding on 2 LPH's in Danks and Gio.

Floyd is one of a few attractive options from the right.

 

Oh and it seems that the Reds actually may still want more pitching.

 

Sit tight folks.

[Leonard Washington]

I'm just as bored as anybody. I've been waiting for something big to happen, but nothing has really happened. But to criticize KW for waiting out the market is ridiculous. It's still a sellers market, and it appears that will only strengthen as the offseason progresses. The return San Diego got for Latos only improves our bargaining power. Coming into this offseason I felt like patience was the key to success in our position, but I had no faith in KW exercising patience. Yet, so far he has, and I commend him for it.

[Marty34]

Let's recap... shall we?

 

After the San Diego Padres pull off a 4 for 1 swap of Ace starting pitcher Matt Latos with the Cincinnati Reds, the trade market is starting to heat up. The bar for starting pitching looks to be set high in that the Reds gave up not only Alonso, but also a nice trio in Grandal, Volquez, and Boxburger.

 

So, in addition to the Reds - who else may have interest in Danks or Floyd?

 

Let's see...

1.) Rangers

2.) Yankees

3.) Red Sox

4.) Blue Jays

5.) Washington

6.) Mets

7.) Marlins

8.) Orioles

 

Take one off that list with Darvish and the Jays.

 

So, that's 7 teams that are bidding on 2 LPH's in Danks and Gio.

Floyd is one of a few attractive options from the right.

 

Oh and it seems that the Reds actually may still want more pitching.

 

Sit tight folks.

 

Gonzalez, Shields, Jurrens, Garza, and Wandy Rodriguez are pitchers who also appear to be on the market.

 

The market became less favorable for the Sox because teams see what Beane is asking for Gonzalez and what SD got for Latos and are probably thinking about dealing a pitcher they weren't otherwise going to move and those pitchers are more attractive than Danks and Floyd. Think what Tampa could get if they moved Price.

[thehugeunit]

Let's recap... shall we?

 

After the San Diego Padres pull off a 4 for 1 swap of Ace starting pitcher Matt Latos with the Cincinnati Reds, the trade market is starting to heat up. The bar for starting pitching looks to be set high in that the Reds gave up not only Alonso, but also a nice trio in Grandal, Volquez, and Boxburger.

 

So, in addition to the Reds - who else may have interest in Danks or Floyd?

 

Let's see...

1.) Rangers

2.) Yankees

3.) Red Sox

4.) Blue Jays

5.) Washington

6.) Mets

7.) Marlins

8.) Orioles

 

Take one off that list with Darvish and the Jays.

 

So, that's 7 teams that are bidding on 2 LPH's in Danks and Gio.

Floyd is one of a few attractive options from the right.

 

Oh and it seems that the Reds actually may still want more pitching.

 

Sit tight folks.

Mets? They aren't going anywhere and actually looking to trade there best pitcher, Niese who isn't even that great.

 

There's also Oswalt and Jackson. One of Jackson and Oswalt need to sign soon, that will really help clear up the market.

Edited December 18, 2011 by TheHugeUnit

[Balta1701]

There's also Oswalt and Jackson. One of Jackson and Oswalt need to sign soon, that will really help clear up the market.

We keep saying that about every move.

[macsandz]

I'm just as bored as anybody. I've been waiting for something big to happen, but nothing has really happened. But to criticize KW for waiting out the market is ridiculous. It's still a sellers market, and it appears that will only strengthen as the offseason progresses. The return San Diego got for Latos only improves our bargaining power. Coming into this offseason I felt like patience was the key to success in our position, but I had no faith in KW exercising patience. Yet, so far he has, and I commend him for it.

 

I dont see this. Latos', Gio's, Jurrjens' controlled status only reduces Danks' value. Danks is a rental and that's a huge problem in terms of return.

[hi8is]

I dont see this. Latos', Gio's, Jurrjens' controlled status only reduces Danks' value. Danks is a rental and that's a huge problem in terms of return.

I think it does help set the value.

 

If 3 years of arbitration on Latos = Grandal, Alonso, Volquez, and Boxberger

 

then

 

1 year of Danks at about 8M = x?

 

Seems to me that we're looking at a top 50 SP prospect from an org as well as another arm or position player from the teams top 10.

[hi8is]

Gonzalez, Shields, Jurrens, Garza, and Wandy Rodriguez...

Add Danks and Floyd to that list and you've got 7 SP available.

Add Oswalt and Jackson to that list and you've got 9 SP available.

 

So, there's a balance between waiting too long and letting the market develop.

 

1 starting pitcher is off the block now and we're down to 7 SP available on the trade market.

 

There's gonna be a lot of activity around the league soon.

 

Since things didn't really take form at the meetings this year - we're looking at the next couple of weeks as the time in which the action will pick up.

 

My guess is that during the rest of the off-season, we'll see at least 2 more blockbuster type moves.... one of which will involve the Sox.

 

Has it been boring thus far?

Absolutely.

[Kalapse]

I think it does help set the value.

 

If 3 years of arbitration on Latos = Grandal, Alonso, Volquez, and Boxberger

 

then

 

1 year of Danks at about 8M = x?

 

Seems to me that we're looking at a top 50 SP prospect from an org as well as another arm or position player from the teams top 10.

Latos will make around $500k next season and is under team control for 4 years.

[EvilJester99]

It still can only help KW get a better deal. Only way I see it could have hurt his position is if they would have dealt Latos for a nothing type package....

[Balta1701]

It still can only help KW get a better deal. Only way I see it could have hurt his position is if they would have dealt Latos for a nothing type package....

It can hurt also, can't just "Only help." Took a team off of the list as a possible trade partner, removed talent that could have come back to the Sox.

 

It remains to be seen if it will help or hurt.

[EvilJester99]

There are still plenty of teams out there that need good SP... why all the panic?? Reds aren't the only team worth dealing with

[Balta1701]

There are still plenty of teams out there that need good SP... why all the panic?? Reds aren't the only team worth dealing with

Because the Reds were clearly one team willing to overpay for that SP.

[EvilJester99]

Because the Reds were clearly one team willing to overpay for that SP.

and as the pitchers market dries up some other team will get desperate and over pay as well. If it ends up not being the case then we can all spend time b****ing, pissing and moaning about how KW screwed things up again.. nothing new

Edited December 19, 2011 by EvilJester99

[justBLAZE]

Still thinks Danks goes home to Texas. Gotta wait it out and get the most.

[Milkman delivers]

We keep saying that about every move.

 

That's how I feel.

 

I dont see this. Latos', Gio's, Jurrjens' controlled status only reduces Danks' value. Danks is a rental and that's a huge problem in terms of return.

 

Agreed.

[knightni]

If the Sox can get half of what the Padres got for Latos when trading Danks, I'll be satisfied.

[pktmotion]

Because the Reds were clearly one team willing to overpay for that SP.

 

Thank you.

 

The Reds I thought matched up well for a possible Danks/Floyd/Thornton deal. After the Latos trade, they aren't an attractive trade partner anymore.

People can talk about how "so many" teams are after SP, but it means nothing unless we match up well in a trade.

 

At the end of the day, it was a lost opportunity.

 

 

[caulfield12]

That's how I feel.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

Unless it ends up like the Freddy Garcia deal and his agent is willing to negotiate a long-term pact (with say a 3 day window) for him to stay 4-5-6 years down the road with the Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, etc.

[ScottyDo]

Thank you.

 

The Reds I thought matched up well for a possible Danks/Floyd/Thornton deal. After the Latos trade, they aren't an attractive trade partner anymore.

People can talk about how "so many" teams are after SP, but it means nothing unless we match up well in a trade.

 

At the end of the day, it was a lost opportunity.

The only teams we wouldn't match up well with are ones looking to trade RP prospects, right? Are we flush enough at any other position that we would have trouble matching up with any team that wants Danks?

 

Basically, I'm confused as to how any team that wants Danks would match up better than any other, as long as they have enough value within their system (which, pretty much all the rumored suitors do).

[pktmotion]

The only teams we wouldn't match up well with are ones looking to trade RP prospects, right? Are we flush enough at any other position that we would have trouble matching up with any team that wants Danks?

 

Basically, I'm confused as to how any team that wants Danks would match up better than any other, as long as they have enough value within their system (which, pretty much all the rumored suitors do).

 

It's a wasted opportunity at the end of the day.

 

but to answer your question. Different teams have different systems/prospect makeup. IMO, A Danks trade thats discussed between the Yankees (who have 4 prospects in the top 50) will more than likely end up being worse than a Danks trade thats discussed between the Reds (who have one in the top 50). There's a greater chance the Reds trade helps us more in terms of quantity(which is integral for a true rebuild). We match up better(to our benefit) with the Reds than the Yankees. Same can be said for the Red Sox, Blue Jays.

 

The Reds were an intriguing, willing trade candidate and by reports were in talks with the White Sox. We know now in hindsight they were willing to overpay–indicating desperation. This should've been recognized and capitalized before a Latos trade is even spoken of. It was a good opportunity gone to waste.