2011-12 White Sox off season catch all thread

[GoodAsGould]

I doubt many GM's can hire/fire the manager without approval of the owner. Guillen was the first to go, Chairman Reinsdorf has put Kenny on the clock.

 

That doesn't make sense, KW offered to quit and JR wouldn't let him... but now he is on the clock....

[Whitewashed in '05]

I doubt he has the right to fire Ventura either. I think Ventura was a Chairman Reinsdorf hire.

Kenny said he had been thinking about Ventura as a manger way back when. He just happened to fit the cheap hire bill.

[Marty34]

That doesn't make sense, KW offered to quit and JR wouldn't let him... but now he is on the clock....

 

Do you think that if they are worse this year than they were last Kenny will be the GM in 2013? I don't.

[Balta1701]

Do you think that if they are worse this year than they were last Kenny will be the GM in 2013? I don't.

Yes. Kenny getting 2013, with 2012 as a rebuilding season, absolutely must be a part of him not giving up the job this year.

 

If JR is going to keep him on, then he has to have a chance to actually see this rebuild through.

[Marty34]

Yes. Kenny getting 2013, with 2012 as a rebuilding season, absolutely must be a part of him not giving up the job this year.

 

If JR is going to keep him on, then he has to have a chance to actually see this rebuild through.

 

I don't see Kenny being brought back for 2013 if they are worse than last year. His fate rests on the performances of Beckham, Dunn, Rios, and Danks. They really aren't rebuilding.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Marty34

[Balta1701]

I don't see Kenny being brought back for 2013 if they are worse than last year. His fate rests on the performances of Beckham, Dunn, Rios, and Danks. They really aren't rebuilding.

No, his fate relies on the performances of guys like Molina, Sale, Castro, and Viciedo right now, because those are the guys he's moved in to the org, and thos eguys won't be ready to be complete contributors for 2-3 years.

 

They're not rebuilding fully, but they chopped $25 million off of the "Give Ozzie a chance to save his job if he wants to" payroll last year. Expecting them not to take a step back with that kind of budget cut is silliness. They might still be a better team because they got rid of one guy who was causing all sorts of problems, but that might not be enough.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Hey marty were you on board when they signed Dunn, and acquired Peavy and Rios? All this KW hate is really getting old, those 3 guys were all once all star level players, and none of em were old or deemed washed up. How was Kenny supposed to know they werent going to perform with white sox?

[Marty34]

Hey marty were you on board when they signed Dunn, and acquired Peavy and Rios? All this KW hate is really getting old, those 3 guys were all once all star level players, and none of em were old or deemed washed up. How was Kenny supposed to know they werent going to perform with white sox?

 

This is the dumbest argument of all. Kenny gets paid a handsome sum to evaluate talent correctly.

[Marty34]

No, his fate relies on the performances of guys like Molina, Sale, Castro, and Viciedo right now, because those are the guys he's moved in to the org, and thos eguys won't be ready to be complete contributors for 2-3 years.

 

They're not rebuilding fully, but they chopped $25 million off of the "Give Ozzie a chance to save his job if he wants to" payroll last year. Expecting them not to take a step back with that kind of budget cut is silliness. They might still be a better team because they got rid of one guy who was causing all sorts of problems, but that might not be enough.

 

If it was Guillen's fault they should be better.

[Balta1701]

If it was Guillen's fault they should be better.

Unfortunately now, because of the failures last season, the roster is now worse on paper. Santos, Buehrle, and Quentin all put up solid years last year, and they will not be easily replaced.

 

For that reason alone, the team could clear out the mess, and still fail to improve on last year's team. That's why this GM can't be judged on wins and losses this season, but instead based on development.

[Marty34]

Unfortunately now, because of the failures last season, the roster is now worse on paper. Santos, Buehrle, and Quentin all put up solid years last year, and they will not be easily replaced.

 

For that reason alone, the team could clear out the mess, and still fail to improve on last year's team. That's why this GM can't be judged on wins and losses this season, but instead based on development.

 

I think the roster as it stands currently is better than 79 wins if Beckham, Dunn, Rios, and Danks play as Williams expects them to.

[Balta1701]

I think the roster as it stands currently is better than 79 wins if Beckham, Dunn, Rios, and Danks play as Williams expects them to.

With bullpen holes, Sale in the rotation probably wearing out after 100 innings, no closer, and another year older on AJ and Konerko, I'm not going to write this team as a .500 team until they show it.

 

Dunn, Rios, and Peavy could put up 7 WAR between them, a big improvement from last year, and we would still be behind where we were at the end of last year.

[southsider2k5]

You're better than that. You are such a Williams apologist.

 

Compared to you, everyone is.

[southsider2k5]

This is the dumbest argument of all. Kenny gets paid a handsome sum to evaluate talent correctly.

 

So according to those standards, you shouldn't be complaining because you don't.

[2nd_city_saint787]

This is the dumbest argument of all. Kenny gets paid a handsome sum to evaluate talent correctly.

 

 

What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Rios wasnt gonna be good after 3 straight years of batting over .290 and driving in 80+ rbis

 

What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Dunn was going to hit like he did after putting up the type of power numbers he has the previous 10 seasons

 

What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Peavy wouldnt be able to bounce back and be an ace?

 

 

 

is there anyway i could go back and look at the threads that broke the news when we got these guys, id like to see what people thought back then

[Balta1701]

is there anyway i could go back and look at the threads that broke the news when we got these guys, id like to see what people thought back then

It's called "Google".

 

Rios Claim

 

Sox Sign Dunn

 

First, Vetoed Peavy Trade

 

Official Peavy Deal

[Marty34]

What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Rios wasnt gonna be good after 3 straight years of batting over .290 and driving in 80+ rbis

 

What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Dunn was going to hit like he did after putting up the type of power numbers he has the previous 10 seasons

 

What sort of evaluation could be done thats gonna tell him that Peavy wouldnt be able to bounce back and be an ace?

 

 

 

is there anyway i could go back and look at the threads that broke the news when we got these guys, id like to see what people thought back then

 

Your position is Williams is not to be held accountable.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Your position is Williams is not to be held accountable.

 

 

for the players collapse yes, they werent bad moves, which is what a GM does, make moves.

 

 

[Marty34]

for the players collapse yes, they werent bad moves, which is what a GM does, make moves.

 

What is your definition of a bad move?

[southsider2k5]

Your position is Williams is not to be held accountable.

 

And yours is that only Kenny is qualified to understand if he should be held accountable or not, because only he understands player evaluation.

[daggins]

Compared to you, everyone is.

 

Not me.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Ive thought about your question all day marty and couldnt come up with anything adequate enough, i have failed.

 

So ill just fight back with more s*** like, how is signing Adam Dunn when your teams biggest need from the previous year was a LH power bat a bad move? Would you of rather had lets say Carlos Pena? The Giambino?

 

Would you rather have Dewayne Wise or a guy who looked to be a 5 tool player that averaged .290+ BA, 15+ HR, 75+ RBI, 15+SB the previous 3 years?

 

And Im sure Peavy was given a physical and tests to make sure he'll be able to fully recover from the injury he had when we got him. So we just picked up one of the most dominating pitchers in the game the previous 3 or 4 years for Clayton Richard who did nothing for us for 2 years and some other replaceable parts who could be replaced

 

From the looks of it KW was just trying to win by adding good players that just didnt work out.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/whitesox-ta...tm_medium=email

 

In a panel Sunday morning at SoxFest, Frank Thomas was asked about his view on steroid use during his career. Thomas, regarded as one of the few clean players from the steroid era, passed along an encounter he had with Barry Bonds in 1993 when the pair met to accept their American League and National League MVP awards:

 

@WhiteSoxTalkCSN

White Sox Talk Thomas recounts what Bonds told him at '93 MVP ceremony: "Yeah, I heard about you a little bit, but I'm the best player in the game."

 

Thomas said he looks back at that and realizes that's just who Bonds was -- a great player, but someone who was "greedy" and wanted to do anything to be the best player to ever play the game.

 

But, at the same time, Thomas recognizes that Bonds and Clemens were great at their craft before they purportedly began taking steroids. But they still did take PED, so in Thomas' mind, "it's going to be hard."

[elrockinMT]

I applaud Frank Thomas and his take on things.

[Steve9347]

I applaud Frank Thomas and his take on things.

We as White Sox fans are really lucky. I wish he had a prominent role with the White Sox as an ambassador or with MLB offices as the public face of clean play.