All Managers are the Same

[greg775]

So man on third and they don't walk Pujols, lefty pitching. Yes it's Lee, but he's already been hit tonight.

Base hit by Albert, winning run scores.

 

So do you all want Manuel fired after what he's done?

 

My point? Folks, all managers make bonehead moves. The players have to bail them out. If they don't, they are bums.

You guys would FRY OZZIE for not walking Pujols in that situation.

If we lost the series you'd be saying: "All the momentum was lost when Ozzie didn't walk Pujols."

 

And what if New York loses to Detroit? Their fans will be livid? Hey it's 1-1. Leyland was a bum the seasons Minnie kept winning the division.

What has the Angels' manager done lately?

What happened to Clint Hurdle after being the first half darling? They sucked the second half.

It's about the players, baby, not the manager!

Edited October 3, 2011 by greg775

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

When will this end?

[chw42]

So man on third and they don't walk Pujols, lefty pitching. Yes it's Lee, but he's already been hit tonight.

Base hit by Albert, winning run scores.

 

So do you all want Manuel fired after what he's done?

 

My point? Folks, all managers make bonehead moods. The players have to bail them out. If they don't, they are bums.

You guys would FRY OZZIE for not walking Pujols in that situation.

If we lost the series you'd be saying: "All the momentum was lost when Ozzie didn't walk Pujols."

 

And what if New York loses to Detroit? Their fans will be livid? Hey it's 1-1. Leyland was a bum the seasons Minnie kept winning the division.

What has the Angels' manager done lately?

What happened to Clint Hurdle after being the first half darling? They sucked the second half.

It's about the players, baby, not the manager!

 

Then why do you infer that Ozzie will win X WS titles with Florida and that he will be inducted into the Hall of Fame?

 

That is, if managers are all the same and the players are everything, why is it that Ozzie should get recognition for the WS he will supposedly win?

[Quin]

Then why do you infer that Ozzie will win X WS titles with Florida and that he will be inducted into the Hall of Fame?

 

That is, if managers are all the same and the players are everything, why is it that Ozzie should get recognition for the WS he will supposedly win?

 

If all Managers are the same, we don't need managers and all of them should be fired immediately for not trying to be the best manager they can be.

[Steve9347]

So man on third and they don't walk Pujols, lefty pitching. Yes it's Lee, but he's already been hit tonight.

Base hit by Albert, winning run scores.

 

So do you all want Manuel fired after what he's done?

 

My point? Folks, all managers make bonehead moods. The players have to bail them out. If they don't, they are bums.

You guys would FRY OZZIE for not walking Pujols in that situation.

If we lost the series you'd be saying: "All the momentum was lost when Ozzie didn't walk Pujols."

 

And what if New York loses to Detroit? Their fans will be livid? Hey it's 1-1. Leyland was a bum the seasons Minnie kept winning the division.

What has the Angels' manager done lately?

What happened to Clint Hurdle after being the first half darling? They sucked the second half.

It's about the players, baby, not the manager!

You have become indefensible.

[BigSqwert]

It's about the players, baby, not the manager!

 

Look up the word contradiction in the dictionary and it shows a google street view of greg's house in Lawrence, Kansas.

 

It's all about the players but for some reason the only way the Marlins will win multiple titles is because of their new manager.

 

Unbelievable

[Quin]

Look up the word contradiction in the dictionary and it shows a google street view of greg's house in Lawrence, Kansas.

 

It's all about the players but for some reason the only way the Marlins will win multiple titles is because of their new manager.

 

Unbelievable

 

I'm going to go poll people in Lawrence about this.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Greg, can't you just sign up for Ozzie's twitter account and be done with it? It's quite clear that Ozzie is nothing but an entertainment piece for you and actually winning baseball games is a distant second on your criteria of what makes a good manager.

[Texsox]

Once baseball owners wise up and replace managers with computers, the world will be a better place.

[Texsox]

So man on third and they don't walk Pujols, lefty pitching. Yes it's Lee, but he's already been hit tonight.

Base hit by Albert, winning run scores.

 

So do you all want Manuel fired after what he's done?

 

My point? Folks, all managers make bonehead moods. The players have to bail them out. If they don't, they are bums.

You guys would FRY OZZIE for not walking Pujols in that situation.

If we lost the series you'd be saying: "All the momentum was lost when Ozzie didn't walk Pujols."

 

And what if New York loses to Detroit? Their fans will be livid? Hey it's 1-1. Leyland was a bum the seasons Minnie kept winning the division.

What has the Angels' manager done lately?

What happened to Clint Hurdle after being the first half darling? They sucked the second half.

It's about the players, baby, not the manager!

 

And a constant in sports is managers come and go. They have a bit of magic for a season or a few more, then it fades and then they, and the team, needs a change of scenery.

[cabiness42]

My point? Folks, all managers make bonehead moves.

 

Nobody wanted Ozzie fired after one bonehead move. They wanted him fired after the 5,000th bonehead move. When Charlie M gets his tally up to 5,000, he'll likely be gone as well.

[Balta1701]

Nobody wanted Ozzie fired after one bonehead move. They wanted him fired after the 5,000th bonehead move. When Charlie M gets his tally up to 5,000, he'll likely be gone as well.

Unless he's also winning games.

[greg775]

Nobody wanted Ozzie fired after one bonehead move. They wanted him fired after the 5,000th bonehead move. When Charlie M gets his tally up to 5,000, he'll likely be gone as well.

 

You all got caught up in the messenger and not my question.

Do you not agree the Pujols thing was huge (after the fact)??

If that happened to our Sox, don't you agree people would have imploded only on Oz?

And like I said if they go on to lose the series our fans would says that was the only reason we lost the series?

 

My point was not so much to only praise Oz believe it or not but to again point out you can point to the manager in any loss.

I mean if Lee gets him out, nobody cares, but it failed and our fan base woulda freaked.

 

Also in Game One, down 6 runs or something with a man on first, Ron Washington called for a sac bunt. Nobody knows why. But again, we do that bunt and ... implosion!

Edited October 3, 2011 by greg775

[LittleHurt05]

Also in Game One, down 6 runs or something with a man on first, Ron Washington called for a sac bunt. Nobody knows why. But again, we do that bunt and ... implosion!

 

When did he call for a sac bunt? If you are referring to the Josh Hamilton bunt, he was trying to beat the shift, it wasn't a called sac bunt.

[greg775]

When did he call for a sac bunt? If you are referring to the Josh Hamilton bunt, he was trying to beat the shift, it wasn't a called sac bunt.

 

Yes that's the play.

I didn't see the game, just saw Baseball Tonite where they were mocking the bunt there. They said it was a sac and he really did square up.

You may be right but I'm going by the highlights and what the talking heads said.

[LittleHurt05]

Link

ARLINGTON -- With Elvis Andrus on first and no outs in the sixth inning of the Rangers' 9-0 loss to the Rays on Friday in Game 1 of the American League Division Series, Josh Hamilton bunted Andrus to second.

 

Although it is not strange to see a team play a little small ball in the playoffs, sacrificing outs to move runners around the basepaths, the circumstances made such a move perplexing. The Rangers were losing, 8-0, and Hamilton had 94 RBIs in 121 games in the regular season.

 

Rangers manager Ron Washington said after the game that Hamilton did that on his own, thinking he might be able to bunt for a base hit.

 

"He was playing the shift," Washington said.

 

"I like his thinking, but right there, of course, I think you've got to swing the bat. But if he had gotten the bunt down, we would have had runners on first and second with Mike [Young] coming up."

 

Hamilton confirmed that was his line of thought.

 

"I wanted to get something going," Hamilton said. "I swung the bat well the first two at-bats. If I hit a home run right there, it's 8-2. They give me that bunt all the time. It set up perfectly for me, he threw me a slider, missed in and I bunted it in instead of out like I was trying to do. I was trying to get some momentum going."

 

The move backfired, as Hamilton was thrown out easily by Rays starter Matt Moore, in essence giving up one of the 12 remaining outs the Rangers had to make up the deficit they faced.

 

Hamilton, who singled in the first and doubled in the fourth, was the only Rangers player to record a hit.

[Rowand44]

I mean if Lee gets him out, nobody cares, but it failed and our fan base woulda freaked.

This is so incorrect. Even when bad moves end up working(and that obviously does happen) people on this board would still call it like it is and you love to say something along the lines of "the move worked, why can't we just be happy."

 

The fact is that Charlie made a mistake and Philly didn't over come it. ALL managers make mistakes but just like a player it's about minimizing them and in the end it's about putting your team in the best position to win, which Ozzie Guillen was terrible at.

[cabiness42]

You all got caught up in the messenger and not my question.

Do you not agree the Pujols thing was huge (after the fact)??

If that happened to our Sox, don't you agree people would have imploded only on Oz?

And like I said if they go on to lose the series our fans would says that was the only reason we lost the series?

 

My point was not so much to only praise Oz believe it or not but to again point out you can point to the manager in any loss.

I mean if Lee gets him out, nobody cares, but it failed and our fan base woulda freaked.

 

Also in Game One, down 6 runs or something with a man on first, Ron Washington called for a sac bunt. Nobody knows why. But again, we do that bunt and ... implosion!

 

Yes, I agree that not walking Pujols was pretty dumb. Yet you miss my point that context matters. A manager making one dumb call compared to making the same dumb calls over and over again.

 

Ozzie for the most part managed the pitching staff well. There are a lot of times that he did/did not make a pitching change and I agreed with the decision but it ended up not working out. What made Ozzie such a bad manager was his mis-management of the offensive side of the game. Consistently batting one of the least productive hitters first, and thus giving him the most plate appearances on the team. Consistently calling for bunts when they aren't called for. Continuing to give Dunn and Rios so much playing time (and near the top of the order) when it was clear they weren't going to produce this year. Not replacing the hitting coach even with years' worth of mounting evidence that multiple hitters were underperforming.

[Balta1701]

Who hits after Pujols, was it Berkman?

[Harry Chappas]

So man on third and they don't walk Pujols, lefty pitching. Yes it's Lee, but he's already been hit tonight.

Base hit by Albert, winning run scores.

 

So do you all want Manuel fired after what he's done?

 

My point? Folks, all managers make bonehead moves. The players have to bail them out. If they don't, they are bums.

You guys would FRY OZZIE for not walking Pujols in that situation.

If we lost the series you'd be saying: "All the momentum was lost when Ozzie didn't walk Pujols."

 

And what if New York loses to Detroit? Their fans will be livid? Hey it's 1-1. Leyland was a bum the seasons Minnie kept winning the division.

What has the Angels' manager done lately?

What happened to Clint Hurdle after being the first half darling? They sucked the second half.

It's about the players, baby, not the manager!

 

Wasn't runner on second with two outs?

 

Did Albert whiff the first two times up?

[Kyyle23]

Greg, two part question here:

 

1. What is the function of a baseball manager to you? What do you deem to be their level of responsibilty within the organization?

 

 

2. What is an acceptable reason to fire any manager?

[greg775]

Greg, two part question here:

 

1. What is the function of a baseball manager to you? What do you deem to be their level of responsibilty within the organization?

 

 

2. What is an acceptable reason to fire any manager?

 

1.) To get the team ready for the season fundamental wise (yes he failed at that the past two years with our team's s***ting bunting), to make good moves during the games (I think his moves are fine, you guys disagree), to win (he has a damn good record with the Sox).

2.) What he did this year was fireable offense, the team burying itself in April/May. However, even tho he DESERVED to be fired, I think his track record with the Sox earned him a shot to win the battle over KW and see if we could return to greatness under Oz under a new GM.

 

I look at the big picture, which you guys get on me for.

Big pix: He already won one WS in Chicago. He's very young. He learned on the job in Chicago (just wait for Alomar/Martinez growing pains, they will be there) and I hate to see Ozzie part II do great things for another franchise. I am convinced he will be one of the greats and I HATE seeing him do it for another team when he learned on the job here in chicago.

[chw42]

1.) To get the team ready for the season fundamental wise (yes he failed at that the past two years with our team's s***ting bunting), to make good moves during the games (I think his moves are fine, you guys disagree), to win (he has a damn good record with the Sox).

2.) What he did this year was fireable offense, the team burying itself in April/May. However, even tho he DESERVED to be fired, I think his track record with the Sox earned him a shot to win the battle over KW and see if we could return to greatness under Oz under a new GM.

 

I look at the big picture, which you guys get on me for.

Big pix: He already won one WS in Chicago. He's very young. He learned on the job in Chicago (just wait for Alomar/Martinez growing pains, they will be there) and I hate to see Ozzie part II do great things for another franchise. I am convinced he will be one of the greats and I HATE seeing him do it for another team when he learned on the job here in chicago.

 

1. He didn't do any of the things you mentioned, especially the whole good record with the Sox. .525 is not a good record, it's a record of mediocrity. AND if you look at the big picture (like you said), he's underachieved with some expensive rosters filled with good talent (06, 07, 10, 11). I think the first two things you said in your first point are debatable (to a point), but Ozzie Guillen won big in one season and fell on his face the rest of the time.

2. Why should Ozzie win the battle when he a) has a worse winning percentage than Williams during their stints with the Sox and b) felt like he was entitled to a new deal when he SHOULD have been fired (like you said)? Ozzie wanted out and the only way he was staying is if the Sox fired Kenny. But Ozzie went about that in a bad way by acting like he was entitled while Kenny admitted to his mistakes and was willing to step down. JR's loyal to both of them to a fault, but it's easy to see why JR did what he did.

 

The big picture is this Greg. The Sox won the World Series 6 years ago. My little brother barely knew WTF happened back then and he's in 4th grade already. In the minds of most (including Sox fans), that World Series is on the backburner in terms of relevancy. What people care about is, what have you done for me lately and what can you do for me in the future? The answer for Ozzie is, he hasn't won anything of relevance for the past 3 years given expensive rosters and he looked like he didn't give a rat's ass about this team during most of this season. Kenny Williams didn't change or go "Kenny "The Genius" Williams". Ozzie Guillen did and it was going to get even worse had he stayed.

Edited October 4, 2011 by chw42

[Milkman delivers]

1.) To get the team ready for the season fundamental wise (yes he failed at that the past two years with our team's s***ting bunting), to make good moves during the games (I think his moves are fine, you guys disagree), to win (he has a damn good record with the Sox).

2.) What he did this year was fireable offense, the team burying itself in April/May. However, even tho he DESERVED to be fired, I think his track record with the Sox earned him a shot to win the battle over KW and see if we could return to greatness under Oz under a new GM.

 

I look at the big picture, which you guys get on me for.

Big pix: He already won one WS in Chicago. He's very young. He learned on the job in Chicago (just wait for Alomar/Martinez growing pains, they will be there) and I hate to see Ozzie part II do great things for another franchise. I am convinced he will be one of the greats and I HATE seeing him do it for another team when he learned on the job here in chicago.

 

Greatness? Pfft, when was this team ever great besides 2005 and maybe 2006?

 

And to insinuate that you look at the big picture while the rest of the board does not is simply laughable.

[greg775]

1. He didn't do any of the things you mentioned, especially the whole good record with the Sox. .525 is not a good record, it's a record of mediocrity. AND if you look at the big picture (like you said), he's underachieved with some expensive rosters filled with good talent (06, 07, 10, 11). I think the first two things you said in your first point are debatable (to a point), but Ozzie Guillen won big in one season and fell on his face the rest of the time.

2. Why should Ozzie win the battle when he a) has a worse winning percentage than Williams during their stints with the Sox and b) felt like he was entitled to a new deal when he SHOULD have been fired (like you said)? Ozzie wanted out and the only way he was staying is if the Sox fired Kenny. But Ozzie went about that in a bad way by acting like he was entitled while Kenny admitted to his mistakes and was willing to step down. JR's loyal to both of them to a fault, but it's easy to see why JR did what he did.

 

The big picture is this Greg. The Sox won the World Series 6 years ago. My little brother barely knew WTF happened back then and he's in 4th grade already. In the minds of most (including Sox fans), that World Series is on the backburner in terms of relevancy. What people care about is, what have you done for me lately and what can you do for me in the future? The answer for Ozzie is, he hasn't won anything of relevance for the past 3 years given expensive rosters and he looked like he didn't give a rat's ass about this team during most of this season. Kenny Williams didn't change or go "Kenny "The Genius" Williams". Ozzie Guillen did and it was going to get even worse had he stayed.

 

I still say that winning percentage of Ozzie's isn't half bad for a guy learning on the job. Isn't a win percentage over .500 pretty decent for any skipper who has been in a place a while?

Do you dispute the fact he is only going to get better?

Why did we train him in Chicago to go kick ass the next 20 years of his career somewhere else?

Now we in all likelihood bring in a rookie like Sandy/Martinez who is gonna make a big batch of mistakes as he learns how to manage.

I realize we agree to disagree.

But by the end of this year's playoffs you are going to likely have a new set of managing "bums" who teams want to run out of town.

If the Phillies don't win this series? Look out. Manuel will be a bum.

If the Rangers don't win ... ouch.

Leyland has been ripped in the past for not winning with talent.

The Yankees? If they lose??? Ouch again. Girardi will be blasted.

 

I will not blast our new manager as he goes along BTW.

I wish him well as I truly believe players for the most part win games.

I do hope he realizes that if he doesn't get them to learn how to bunt in preseason, then the bunt is a worthless weapon in games.

If the team doesn't show the ability to steal a base in preseason, don't run in games.

Edited October 4, 2011 by greg775