Chris Sale to be Moved to the Rotation in 2012

[southsider2k5]

I really hope Danksy is traded. I love the guy, but I don't think we have the money to sign him, and I think he will get us the larger return on prospects.

 

Get it done, Kenny.

 

I have been saying this for a year now. I really wonder if they sniffed around with him at the trading deadline? Anyways, there will be a market for the guy when you look at NY and Boston's staff's.

[Balta1701]

I have been saying this for a year now. I really wonder if they sniffed around with him at the trading deadline? Anyways, there will be a market for the guy when you look at NY and Boston's staff's.

Hasn't everyone said that Danks was available but that they didn't get an offer they were content with?

[southsider2k5]

Mechanics, frame, etc. There was risk. Even if he has the stuff. The warning signs were there. I'm not going to make a stink about this now. But there's no letting the Sox off the hook if he ends up back in the bullpen.

 

Of course not, because it is your ever dying mission to make the Sox pay for their mistakes!!?!

[southsider2k5]

Still don't understand the "sacrificing the future" argument with Sale.

 

In hindsight, sure, it was a mistake. But if we had won the division it would have been worth it 100% to have one of the best relievers in the league in our pen.

 

And if the answer to that is "we wouldn't have won the division no matter what"....then we shouldn't have resigned PK, shouldn't have signed Dunn, and traded Q, Danks, and Jackson before 2011 even started.

 

Exactly. The focus was on winning in 2011, which means if Sale was on the team, it needed to be in the pen. If they wanted him stretched out for 2012 at the expense of having him as a reliever, that would have meant a whole lot more Will Ohman, Tony Pena, Brian Bruney, and Jason Fasor depending on match ups and the time of the season. After the way Chris relieved in 2010, that wasn't going to be very consistent with winning the division.

[Balta1701]

Exactly. The focus was on winning in 2011, which means if Sale was on the team, it needed to be in the pen. If they wanted him stretched out for 2012 at the expense of having him as a reliever, that would have meant a whole lot more Will Ohman, Tony Pena, Brian Bruney, and Jason Fasor depending on match ups and the time of the season. After the way Chris relieved in 2010, that wasn't going to be very consistent with winning the division.

At least worth pointing out...I would have had no problem with more Will Ohman as long as he was being used against left-handed batters. That's his job.

 

The real problem was going with Thornton as the closer out of ST, which necessitated 2 other lefties out there, and not having enough quality RHP out there (something which hurt us the whole year).

[southsider2k5]

At least worth pointing out...I would have had no problem with more Will Ohman as long as he was being used against left-handed batters. That's his job.

 

The real problem was going with Thornton as the closer out of ST, which necessitated 2 other lefties out there, and not having enough quality RHP out there (something which hurt us the whole year).

 

And having Chris Sale not in the bullpen only makes that worse as he covered a lot of those difficult hitters himself, including righties and multiple inning stints. If you take Sale out of the mix, who else besides Thornton could have been your closer to start 2011?

[jenksycat]

Also, he only has to worry about endurance now. Rather than having to learn how to pitch pro ball....he's already proven that he can be dominant, just has to build up endurance so he can last 6 instead of 2

[Milkman delivers]

I think one of Floyd/Danks is gone before next season. I'd be pretty surprised if they're both gone this winter though. My guess is that one is kept, but traded in July if we're not in a good place in the standings. And my guess is we won't be in a good place in the standings.

 

Oy, weren't we saying this exact stuff last offseason?

[Milkman delivers]

Pssh.. look at my post on that subject.

 

 

 

I knew it cause I saw Prior and Sale both pitch in college. Sale has very good stuff, but he isn't in Prior's neighborhood. (and that is no knock, Prior was just that good)

 

 

 

And I will maintain my ways on saying it would be a horrible mistake if Danks is traded. (unless you absolutely can not sign him to a Buehrle type deal) He still has too much upside untapped. (and yes.. I'm his biggest fan, and I know Floyd is Jason's biggest fan)

 

When does he plan on tapping that potential? I don't want to sit around and get nothing out of this guy simply because we think he can do better than this. He's not signing an extension. We need to get something of value for him.

[Rowand44]

Pssh.. look at my post on that subject.

 

 

 

I knew it cause I saw Prior and Sale both pitch in college. Sale has very good stuff, but he isn't in Prior's neighborhood. (and that is no knock, Prior was just that good)

 

 

 

And I will maintain my ways on saying it would be a horrible mistake if Danks is traded. (unless you absolutely can not sign him to a Buehrle type deal) He still has too much upside untapped. (and yes.. I'm his biggest fan, and I know Floyd is Jason's biggest fan)

I have not forgotten about Prior but I still vehemently disagree. Prior had very good stuff but he didn't have Kerry Wood or Strasburg stuff, what set Prior apart at the time was his ability to locate said stuff.

[iamshack]

Pssh.. look at my post on that subject.

 

 

 

I knew it cause I saw Prior and Sale both pitch in college. Sale has very good stuff, but he isn't in Prior's neighborhood. (and that is no knock, Prior was just that good)

 

 

 

And I will maintain my ways on saying it would be a horrible mistake if Danks is traded. (unless you absolutely can not sign him to a Buehrle type deal) He still has too much upside untapped. (and yes.. I'm his biggest fan, and I know Floyd is Jason's biggest fan)

Really? I had no idea Gavin even knew Jason...

[BigSqwert]

Really? I had no idea Gavin even knew Jason...

[Eminor3rd]

Then you know what would have been great? Stretching him out to 165 innings this year. Best thing you could have done if you were really worried about him breaking down at the end of the year.

 

The more I see the Rays put K machines on the mound year after year, the more I'm OK with the David Price/Jeremy Hellickson strategy. Shelf life seems to be an issue if you're going blow an elbow, but not if you need to build strength.

[Balta1701]

The more I see the Rays put K machines on the mound year after year, the more I'm OK with the David Price/Jeremy Hellickson strategy. Shelf life seems to be an issue if you're going blow an elbow, but not if you need to build strength.

David Price never was a full-time, full season reliever. Price pitched 123 innings in 2008 in his first full season post-draft (and made a couple playoff appearances). He then threw 162 innings in 2009 before going to 208 in 2010 (plus playoffs).

 

Same story for Hellickson, He threw a few games out of the Rays pen in 2010, but totaled over 150 innings.

 

Neither of these guys did anything like what was done to Sale...Sale was stretched out to be a 140-150 innings guy coming out of college. He then had his total innings cut in half this year to 71.

 

Both of those guys were treated the same...the Rays gradually raised their innings and didn't stick them in the pen until they had accumulated the number of innings they wanted them to get. The White Sox cut Sale's innings in half this year, and basically are taking a huge gamble if they try to push him back to 150 next year. The Price/Hellickson strategy is the one I advocated in the spring and still think was the right move now...gradually buildilng up his innings. It's not what the Sox did.

[elrockinMT]

Floyd/Humber/Danks/Peavy/Sale doesn't leave room for Buehrle

 

 

Unless that ain't the rotation

[TaylorStSox]

I have not forgotten about Prior but I still vehemently disagree. Prior had very good stuff but he didn't have Kerry Wood or Strasburg stuff, what set Prior apart at the time was his ability to locate said stuff.

Agreed

If we're talking pure stuff, Prior isn't in my top 10. Completely unrelated to the thread, but people forget about the stuff Jenks once had...100 MPH fastball, 2 different plus curves, a plus change, a plus slider and a real nice cutter. Before he wore down, that kid could flat out bring it.

[kitekrazy]

I say the headline "Chris Sale to be Moved" and freaked out that they were trading him already.

 

Rumor has it the Cards wanted him for Rasmus.

 

[kitekrazy]

Then you know what would have been great? Stretching him out to 165 innings this year. Best thing you could have done if you were really worried about him breaking down at the end of the year.

 

That still has a chance to happen or they will risk harming him for the future.

Edited October 5, 2011 by kitekrazy

[Balta1701]

That still has a chance to happen.

How is he going to throw another 95 innings in the 2010 season?

[kitekrazy]

When does he plan on tapping that potential? I don't want to sit around and get nothing out of this guy simply because we think he can do better than this. He's not signing an extension. We need to get something of value for him.

 

Maybe as soon as the Royals start winning divisions. They probably get more value for him in the off season than a trade deadline.

 

[mcgrad70]

https://twitter.com/#!/scottmerkin/stat...968579180019714

Scott Merkin

Ken Williams today on Chris Sale in 2012: "“He’ll be moved to the rotation, or he will be given every opportunity in the rotation."

2 minutes ago via web

 

Let's see you hampered the incoming manager with a pitching coach he may or may not care for and another coach who is the Joe of Hardrock, Coco and Joe

Now he's rounding out the rotation and I guess tomorrow we'll get the opening day lineups.

Kenny's saying he didn't have a chance to fail under his own merit, he'll be damned if the next manager will be given that chance.

This is why loathe Reinsdorf - it's just never ending drama.

Who in their right mind would be bothered with this organization?

Edited October 5, 2011 by mcgrad70

[Leonard Zelig]

Let's see you hampered the incoming manager with a pitching coach he may or may not care for and another coach who is the Joe of Hardrock, Coco and Joe

Now he's rounding out the rotation and I guess tomorrow we'll get the opening day lineups.

Kenny's saying he didn't have a chance to fail with his own merit, he be damned if the next manager will be given that chance.

This is why loathe Reinsdorf - it's just never ending drama.

Who in their right mind would be bothered with this organization?

Holy obscurity!

[mcgrad70]

Holy obscurity!

 

 

The bottom line Robin is the White Sox are no better than the third best team in their division and there are easily 7 teams in the American League superior to them.

And this is before the hot-stove trading and free-agent signings which we've already been told the Sox will not be active participant.

Unless MLB is moving to an NBA type of playoff system which would have them playing the World Series a week before spring training starts, the only way you'll ever see the Sox in the playoffs is for them to win their division. There are several well-heeled owners that will see to it that won't happen.

 

[VictoryMC98]

The bottom line Robin is the White Sox are no better than the third best team in their division and there are easily 7 teams in the American League superior to them.

And this is before the hot-stove trading and free-agent signings which we've already been told the Sox will not be active participant.

Unless MLB is moving to an NBA type of playoff system which would have them playing the World Series a week before spring training starts, the only way you'll ever see the Sox in the playoffs is for them to win their division. There are several well-heeled owners that will see to it that won't happen.

 

100% Agreed.

[Leonard Zelig]

The bottom line Robin is the White Sox are no better than the third best team in their division and there are easily 7 teams in the American League superior to them.

And this is before the hot-stove trading and free-agent signings which we've already been told the Sox will not be active participant.

Unless MLB is moving to an NBA type of playoff system which would have them playing the World Series a week before spring training starts, the only way you'll ever see the Sox in the playoffs is for them to win their division. There are several well-heeled owners that will see to it that won't happen.

 

I thought the Sox were supposed to be very active participants. Quentin, Floyd, Danks, Thornton, if those guys are all moved I would consider that active. Of course, what they get in return remains to be seen.