Is Carlos Quentin going to be on this team in 2012?

[jasonxctf]

unless you can somehow move Adam Dunn, and open up the DH spot, Carlos has to be gone? You've got 4OF's for 3 positions with a GM looking to cut payroll.

 

Rios- No one would take that contract.

 

Viciedo- Can't keep him at AAA anymore. Big investment in time moving him to the OF, so going back to 3B may be a stretch.

 

DeAza- What, you're going to bench or AAA a guy who hit .300 in limited AB's in 2010 and .329 in 150+ AB's in 2011. He's also got speed, which this team will be lacking.

[Milkman delivers]

Jayson Werth had put up 3.5 straight seasons of health and OPS's over 860, culminating in a .921 OPS the year before he hit free agency, in addition to being viewed as a plus defender.

 

Carlos Quentin has finished 0 full seasons in his last 4. He has never played more than 131 games in a season. His average OPS over the last 4 years is .857, but over the last 3 years it's .815. ANd he's viewed as a defensive negative, even if he was our best fielder in the OF this year.

 

If you're trading for Carlos Quentin, you're hoping for a .950 OPS and a full season. You're much more likely to get an .830 OPS and 2/3 of a season...and there's just as good of a chance of him missing most/all of the year as there is of him putting up a .900 OPS. It's like putting Jake Peavy in your rotation...you better have a backup plan.

 

Ugh, that sounds terrible, but it's true.

 

Yep, that's a paddlin too.

 

[jenksycat]

Because we have a cheaper replacement that he would be stealing playing time from and Q+Thornton may = Buehrle.

 

If JR can't resign Buehrle because of the 5 or so mil more Q will cost next year then he should sell the team.

 

And he wouldn't be stealing time if him and Vic play the corners with Rios/Aza in CF.

 

Edit- And please don't confuse my stance on this as some sort of retarded "he makes people smile in restaurants". I wanted Q traded last deadline, but now I'd rather just ride it out and hope Dunn, Peavy, and Beckham remember how to not suck and our lineup becomes Aza/Beckham/Q/Dunn/PK/Dayan/Alexei/C/Morel.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Jenksy Cat

[Milkman delivers]

If JR can't resign Buehrle because of the 5 or so mil more Q will cost next year then he should sell the team.

 

And he wouldn't be stealing time if him and Vic play the corners with Rios/Aza in CF.

 

Edit- And please don't confuse my stance on this as some sort of retarded "he makes people smile in restaurants". I wanted Q traded last deadline, but now I'd rather just ride it out and hope Dunn, Peavy, and Beckham remember how to not suck and our lineup becomes Aza/Beckham/Q/Dunn/PK/Dayan/Alexei/C/Morel.

 

I think we should give KW the time to see what we can get for him before we just decide to keep him because we think we won't get value in return, though.

[Kyyle23]

If JR can't resign Buehrle because of the 5 or so mil more Q will cost next year then he should sell the team.

And he wouldn't be stealing time if him and Vic play the corners with Rios/Aza in CF.

 

Edit- And please don't confuse my stance on this as some sort of retarded "he makes people smile in restaurants". I wanted Q traded last deadline, but now I'd rather just ride it out and hope Dunn, Peavy, and Beckham remember how to not suck and our lineup becomes Aza/Beckham/Q/Dunn/PK/Dayan/Alexei/C/Morel.

 

 

these statements make me laugh

[Marty34]

If Kenny Williams gets a decent haul for him, I will be impressed and applaud Kenny Williams. I'm still content with his performance in dumping Jackson.

 

Keeping Quentin at the deadline should have been the last straw for Williams tenure as GM. It was just an unbelievable bad decision even before he hurt his shoulder. No reason for it whatsoever.

[jenksycat]

these statements make me laugh

 

a dash of hyperbole yes...but Buehrle is the rare case of re-sign no matter what imo, even if its a couple extra million. So if you're saying we can't re-sign a guy like Buehrle because his contract would put us 5 mil over budget, then there are bigger problems.

[Marty34]

a dash of hyperbole yes...but Buehrle is the rare case of re-sign no matter what imo, even if its a couple extra million. So if you're saying we can't re-sign a guy like Buehrle because his contract would put us 5 mil over budget, then there are bigger problems.

 

No. If a team goes over budget to keep Quentin there are bigger problems.

[jenksycat]

No. If a team goes over budget to keep Quentin there are bigger problems.

 

Coming from a guy who wants to trade every single player on the 40 man roster so our 2016 team is legit

Edited October 6, 2011 by Jenksy Cat

[Marty34]

Coming from a guy who wants to trade every single player on the 40 man roster so our 2016 team is legit

 

Solid comeback. You're learning.

[RockRaines]

Coming from a guy who wants to trade every single player on the 40 man roster so our 2016 team is legit

It wouldnt be because then those prospects will be at their peak value and you would want to then trade them for 2020

[iamshack]

I think Carlos is a guy who you need to keep around til the deadline and move him then. There are always going to be the injury concerns coming into a new season, and a reduced sense of urgency from other organizations. He obviously should have been dealt this season.

 

If it were me, I'd bring him back, and hope like hell he has a good first half, and then either keep him because you're atop the division, or deal him to a desperate club. The deadline is a time when these injury/consistency concerns seem to get overlooked quite a bit more.

 

I just don't think the return is going to be much of anything at this point. Unless you really have your eye on some sleeper SP candidate or something...

[Fantl916]

I'm having a hard time buying into the idea that we need to trade Quentin to clear space for a crowded outfield, and people being ok with accepting a moderate or worse return on him in order to accomplish such. If there isn't a team willing to pony up a couple good prospects for a power bat then hold him. Our outfield situation can be remedied by platooning rios and de aza in CF. But really? Dump Quentin for scraps just to shed salary? That's not how a good team rebuilds. You hold out until a team meets your price. Off the top of my head I can think a more than a few teams that could potentially use Quentin:

 

Red Sox, Cubs, D'backs, Rockies, Astros, Dodgers (if they lose Ethier), Mets, A's. Pirates, Giants, Mariners, Nationals, etc.

 

Now whether these teams are legit matches who knows. But you cant tell me one wouldnt give something solid this offseason for a power bat. The Giants are dying for power, the Cubs/Mets/Nationals have had a corner outfield spot occupied by well below average COFs for quite some time, some of the teams i listed are going young but maybe a team like the d'backs or mariners think they can compete with a bit more power and pony up.

 

What I'm saying is it's bad business at this point to trade Quentin just the clear salary. You hold him until your perceived price is met, and if nobody meets it then you let him walk as a free agent and get the nice draft picks. The reality for our team is not that Viciedo can replace Quentin, as Viciedo is going to play anyways, it's whether Rios and De Aza can be depended on to both produce in Quentin's absence which is a huge doubt in my mind.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Fantl916

[jenksycat]

It wouldnt be because then those prospects will be at their peak value and you would want to then trade them for 2020

 

I think in an ideal situation, we keep the Barons stocked and start a dynasty there.

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

If JR can't resign Buehrle because of the 5 or so mil more Q will cost next year then he should sell the team.

 

And he wouldn't be stealing time if him and Vic play the corners with Rios/Aza in CF.

 

Edit- And please don't confuse my stance on this as some sort of retarded "he makes people smile in restaurants". I wanted Q traded last deadline, but now I'd rather just ride it out and hope Dunn, Peavy, and Beckham remember how to not suck and our lineup becomes Aza/Beckham/Q/Dunn/PK/Dayan/Alexei/C/Morel.

 

There is always a point where you go over budget. Even if it is by a dollar.

[scenario]

I think Rios is tradeable if the Sox eat $20M of his remaining contract.

Should they do this? Absolutely. They'd save about $5M per year off of what they owe now... which would almost pay Quentin's salary.

Then, if I'm the new manager, I'd move Quentin back to left to minimize his defensive limitations... put DeAza in center and Viciedo in right.

 

Put me in charge damnit! I'll get it done!! lol

 

 

[Marty34]

I think Rios is tradeable if the Sox eat $20M of his remaining contract.

Should they do this? Absolutely. They'd save about $5M per year off of what they owe now... which would almost pay Quentin's salary.

Then, if I'm the new manager, I'd move Quentin back to left to minimize his defensive limitations... put DeAza in center and Viciedo in right.

 

Put me in charge damnit! I'll get it done!! lol

 

This is a viable alternative. This would also buy them time with Quentin where they could deal him at the trade deadline if he's having a good year.

[jenksycat]

There is always a point where you go over budget. Even if it is by a dollar.

 

Not in the case of a guy like Buehrle or PK imo. As long as the contracts are reasonable and close to fair market, you keep guys like that around as they mean more than just what they provide on the field. I mean, think of all the smiles they'll put on faces for instance.

[southsider2k5]

Not in the case of a guy like Buehrle or PK imo. As long as the contracts are reasonable and close to fair market, you keep guys like that around as they mean more than just what they provide on the field. I mean, think of all the smiles they'll put on faces for instance.

 

Which is why you move guys who aren't in that group to keep them around.

[greg775]

I think Rios is tradeable if the Sox eat $20M of his remaining contract.

Should they do this? Absolutely. They'd save about $5M per year off of what they owe now... which would almost pay Quentin's salary.

Then, if I'm the new manager, I'd move Quentin back to left to minimize his defensive limitations... put DeAza in center and Viciedo in right.

 

Put me in charge damnit! I'll get it done!! lol

 

Seriously, who would want Rios?

Average ballplayer at best at any cost.

And not worth the risk in terms of his loafing.

I think there's the chance he'll put up average numbers for the Sox next year which would be a good thing.

 

[hogan873]

Seriously, who would want Rios?

Average ballplayer at best at any cost.

And not worth the risk in terms of his loafing.

I think there's the chance he'll put up average numbers for the Sox next year which would be a good thing.

You never know. Some team may want a potentially good center fielder that needs a kick in the ass. Regardless, though, the Sox wouldn't get much in return. But in Scenario's scenario, it's about freeing up cash. That's a good move.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I think that Quentin will be gone. I also think that the Sox will trade John Danks and Matt Thornton. I believe that they re-sign Mark Buehrle - probably for 3 more years.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Nope. He gone. unfortunately.

[elrockinMT]

This is a viable alternative. This would also buy them time with Quentin where they could deal him at the trade deadline if he's having a good year.

 

 

If he is having a good year I woud keep CQ. We need power in our line up and CQ provides that and he also provides the hard charging emotion that I think Robin Ventura provided as a player. Quiet and determined. Trade CQ without repalcing that intangible as well as the tangible and this team continues to falter. There is nobody in our system that I am aware of that can provide the bat CQ has and we would lose with a trade. Trade him and you just open up another hole.