SoxFan1 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:26 PM) Mike Quade spent 20 years managing in the minors. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 05:48 PM) That is a given. It was kind of like what the Sox initially did with Ozzie when they kept Nossek on board to provide him with support and even talked about trying to get an ex manager on board. Robin has a lot of friends so I'm very curious who this bench coach they've targeted is and whether that team will give the Sox permission. According to his Wikipedia page, Nossek was a member of the White Sox organization until 2003. And if I recall correctly, he left during the season. He wasn't on the bench for Guillen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) Would I have liked Dave Martinez, sure? But he has just as much managerial experience as Ventura. being mentored by a fantastic coach and being involved in a well run organization that is doing really well each year with a lousy payroll, while competing in the best division in baseball vs a guy who hung out with his kids for 8 years Yeah, that's the same. *rolls eyes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 06:13 PM) I think he meant/said with conviction. OK. Y'all keep telling me one of Robin's strengths was he could speak English. Is that now suspect too? All I can do is LOL over this mess, it's just not worth getting upset about. I won't renew and life will go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) I want to say I'm shocked with the negativity surrounding this hiring, but then again, this is SoxTalk. On the face of it, I like it. Would I have liked Dave Martinez, sure? But he has just as much managerial experience as Ventura. Like others have said, this isn't football or basketball. He'll be just fine so long as he has a good coaching staff around him. Honestly, the more important hiring will be the hitting and bench coaches. It's too early to tell if this is a good hire or not. He hasn't managed a damn game yet. Ventura is so far over his head....................he could not even answer some basic questions. I can't piss without consulting KW. Puppet show 101. I am not being negative just a realist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) What seems odd to me is that a lot of the people who see 2012 as a rebuilding type year are shedding the most tears over this move. If you're going to be grooming younger guys to come up, you should probably have a manager who has experience as a manager or coach helping young guys adjust to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:28 PM) being mentored by a fantastic coach and being involved in a well run organization that is doing really well each year with a lousy payroll, while competing in the best division in baseball vs a guy who hung out with his kids for 8 years Yeah, that's the same. *rolls eyes* When you have the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft for 10 years, you're likely to get some talent out of it. There's no guarantee that just because he was Joe Maddon's "protege" he's going to be a great manager. QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:30 PM) Ventura is so far over his head....................he could not even answer some basic questions. I can't piss without consulting KW. Puppet show 101. I am not being negative just a realist. If you say so. I'll reserve judgment until, you know, he actually starts his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 06:36 PM) Well Sox have now hired the complete left side of the Sox infield in the 90's. I guess Big Frank will be the next manager starting with the right side. Wilbur Wood for pitching coach - at least he knew how Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:35 PM) When you have the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft for 10 years, you're likely to get some talent out of it. There's no guarantee that just because he was Joe Maddon's "protege" he's going to be a great manager. But somehow you're ok with hiring someone who's never done anything remotely close to what he's being asked to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:26 PM) So that's why all of the teams in major league baseball hire guys with absolutely no experience whatsoever. It mustn't help at all.wjo Those with no experience just aren't given a chance right away. It doesn't mean they can't do it, but most have to pay their dues and "learn" (whether they actually do or not) alongside a major league manager. I also have to imagine most GM's make those hires looking out for their own asses. It's easier to pick the re-tread or the popular pick than someone new to the job. For Williams to make it, it suggests to me he's confident in his job. He's not going anywhere, atleast for the next few seasons. Honestly, there's no one they could have hired that would have made me react any differently than now. When they're situated to compete, then I'll care. For now, they're treading and if Ventura is terrible then he'll just fit alongside our terrible team. Perfect match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I would have preferred Herbert Perry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:35 PM) If you say so. I'll reserve judgment until, you know, he actually starts his job. That is what I am afraid of, I have no ill will against Ventura I respect him. How much of the actual job will he get to do with KW around, I say not much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 06:42 PM) I like the Sox being honest with this move and admitting the truth that they have no chance to win the division next year. They're future begins by developing their young talent and working through KW's mess of bad deals and bad contracts over the next few years. But see, that's just it. How can we work through all of his Kenny's mess with him still there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I find it laughable a guy who has been in baseball as long as Robin Ventura has needs to be a bench coach or a first base coach to gain experience. This is baseball, not some guy representing you while on trial for a murder you didn't commit. And besides, anyone who doesn't think he's experienced enough to be a manager, why are you giving anyone your opinions? Using your standards, your opinions are mean nothing to you, why should they matter to anyone else? I find this move genius. I don't see why Robin can't be as good as Dave Martinez, or my pick, Sandy Alomar, or Ozzie Guillen for that matter. It will also probably save a lot of season ticket accounts. We all manage games in our heads while watching. Robin has played for Torborg, Lamont, Valentine, Torre, even Bevington. He knows the difference between good and bad. He'll be well respected, he'll never embarrass the Sox. The only issuea that may take a little time is managing the bullpen, but Cooper should help with that, and I have a hard time seeing him running on to the field to argue with umpires. I really like this, and I wasn't that big of a fan of Robin Ventura the player. I think he has the perfect personality to manage and he's seems like a bright guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:38 PM) But somehow you're ok with hiring someone who's never done anything remotely close to what he's being asked to do? Yes. Being a manager isn't about X's and O's. Do you not think Robin Ventura has a good grasp of the game of baseball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (mcgrad70 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:36 PM) Wilbur Wood for pitching coach - at least he knew how If not Wood ............I say Rich 280Z Dotson! I am showing my age on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 06:54 PM) I'd care more if I thought this team was in a position to compete next season. Let the guy learn. If we're terrible, perhaps that will be it for Williams. I preferred Dave Martinez too, but I wasn't shocked. It was a White Sox type of move. Kind of like the same feeling I have on draft day when they do what they do. This is exactly what I'm going to have work through over the next few months. I love my White Sox passionately. I just haven't cared very much for their present caretakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 04:27 PM) Experience isn't the most important thing to manage baseball. At least not manager experience. It isn't like NFL or the NBA where you are writing plays and doing tons of stuff. An MLB manager's biggest job is just managing the personalities and the clubhouse. Whether Robin will be good at that, hell if I know. Sure, there are other components to managing (scouting reports to read, etc) but a big part of it are skills that Ventura could have (I don't know whether he does or doesn't). The way to look at this is .... 1) KW has zero control over who the manager is... OR 2) KW is risking his GM career with this move because of the obvious risks of hiring a manager (someone who it will be incredibly embarassing to fire, especially after the way he left the organization the first time)... OR 3) KW already knows he's going to the executive upstairs position in 2013 or 2014. You'd have to think Cooper and Hahn knew/know exactly what was going on behind the scenes or they would both have bolted the Sox. It will be really interesting now to see who the hitting and bench coach are... The thing I don't like is putting a former Sox fan favorite in the position of taking so much heat for the Dunn/Rios/Beckham failures. Obviously, he'll be a bit more boring and bland in terms of dealing with the media. Still, you can't imagine many Sox fans feeling "optimistic" about the move. It's doubtful it will sell any season tickets. Obviously, the team's going to have to show progress on the field and actually be in 1st or close to it in 2012 before a large number of fans will come back into the fold. Part of me feels that KW wants to deflect all the negative attention for the composition of the roster he created by making Ventura something of a sacrificial lamb that most of the Chicago media will be respectful towards because of his reputation as a "great guy" and because of the relationships he built when he was a player. Then again, the "new" media has jerks like Mariotti and Cowley who make a living from tearing down or targeting "heroes" that used to be off limits for so much negativity... At a certain point, Ventura's going to be held accountable for a number of problems which he inherited and has absolutely zero control over...whether that's fair or not, it was probably the trade-off he had to live with coming in as a manager with zero experience. One now wonders how much will be trimmed from the payroll (Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle, Thornton, Crain and/or Frasor) before Opening Day. Edited October 7, 2011 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Cali @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:07 PM) s***, it's my fault really. I expected something different from this organization. I shouldn't have gotten excited about Martinez. Of course they were gonna hire someone completely out of the blue... This is The White Flag Hiring. We will look back on it and know it years from know... The White Sox have given up on three things: Spending money to hire someone. Hiring someone out of organization. And, giving any indication to the fan base that they will at all be in contention for the next 3+ years I had already lowered my hopes. I knew they'd disappoint me, but I was expecting a disappointment of Sandy Alomar over Dave Martinez. Something that wasn't ideal, but wouldn't be bad. They somehow pantsed me and managed again to molest my aspirations for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:20 PM) I loved it during the conference when Kenny mentioned that his scouts and player development has drafted and developed a lot of gems in the farm system. Whose he crapping!!! this gets more hilarious as the night goes on...you just can't take this seriously anymore...our favorite team is just stuck with the management from hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 A few things: I 100% agree with fathom. I understand people being unhappy with hiring a guy with no experience, but (I agree with Jason here) I'm guessing that KW identified the problems that existed in the clubhouse and figured that Robin would be a good fit to fix those issues. A managerial job is about looking at matchups, yes, but being able to manage the clubhouse is a much bigger part of it. That's where he'll have to earn his lunch money. I know I always draw everything back to Iowa State, but it's exactly like when they hired Fred Hoiberg as head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:39 PM) Yes. Being a manager isn't about X's and O's. Do you not think Robin Ventura has a good grasp of the game of baseball? What's funny is he's crying Ventura isn't qualified, but since he's never worked in a front office and has zero experience, I don't know how he's qualified to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Again. Not a press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 WHAT!!!!!! Please JR you are a joke LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 07:46 PM) What's funny is he's crying Ventura isn't qualified, but since he's never worked in a front office and has zero experience, I don't know how he's qualified to say that. No I'm not crying just voicing my displeasure. And I can point you to an article earlier in this thread that ripped apart this godawful move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts