Robin Ventura Named White Sox Manager

[Milkman delivers]

Some people don't like to suck up.

Personally I don't like to suck up at work. Prolly why I'm not on the path to being rich, yet.

 

Not surprising. I assume you're this guy:

 

[Soxbadger]

I dont believe anything in any newspaper (hyperbole obviously), Im kind of a cynic.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Soxbadger

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Jesus.

 

A manager of an MLB team pretty much does these 7 things:

 

1) Makes real-time on-field decisions (when to go at a guy or pitch around him, when to pitch out/bunt/run, etc.)

2) Makes game day decisions (lineup card, who needs rest and who needs to play, who in the pen should get the day off, etc)

3) Leads a coaching staff by keeping the coaches on the same page and encouraging discussion/input

4) Leads Spring Training and practice sessions

5) Acts as a kind of information hub between the front office (GM), scouting staff, coaches, trainers, players, and media, trying to take in all the information available and make the right baseball-type decisions at the right times

6) Motivates the players to play and to play the right way, or at least tries to, and also is there to take pressure off the players and protect them when necessary

7) Deals with the media every day, every game, in good times in bad

 

A Davey Martinez type (since he's supposedly the best guy here) has, if anything, a shred of experience in any of these areas. Ventura as an assistant and as a revered clubhouse leader throughout his career has probably just as much experience in categories 3-5 as Martinez does, which again is practically nothing. In terms of 1 & 2 above Martinez would definitely have a lot more experience than Robin - BUT - and this is huge - he does not have enough experience at it to make anyone rightly feel comfortable with him leading a club without also receiving tremendous support from a veteran coaching staff. There is really little difference between the two.

 

And more than anything else, the most important aspects of a good manager have to do with who he is as a person and how well he is able to communicate with his players, coaching staff, front office/scouting personnel, and the media. People speak so highly of Scoscia (sp?) because of how game-smart he is, and yes, he might be the most game-smart manager in baseball, but that's not the reason he has that job. s***, neither is that the reason everyone's favorite playboy Joe Maddon has his job - Maddon was brought in to change the culture in Tampa Bay and get those guys to believe in themselves, not to manage the running game. If Ventura has those most important qualities then there is no reason to believe that he cannot also grow into a good game manager also, especially given the amount of help he will get.

 

And again, for like the zillionth time on this board, what players held us back the most last year? Rios, Dunn, Peavy, and Gordon, with Morel also being slow to pick it up as a rookie. Ventura can't make Peavy healthy, but he should without doubt help Morel, and if he can open up Gordon, Rios, and/or Dunn to beneficial instruction just through his natural demeanor, then we will have already made major strides as a club.

 

Let's just wait and see on this one and not be whiny little girl scouts about the whole thing.

[Chicago White Sox]

So you think Coop's behavior is warranted and FINE? Or you just dispute what Cowley wrote. Why would a well paid reporter make s*** up? He wouldn't lest he get fired.

I give the article my applause.

I actually think Cowley's an entertaining writer, I just think he has no integrity and is full of s***. How you can be so oblivious to Cowley's bias is beyond me. He always reports one side of the story (i.e. Guillen's) and tries to make KW look like the vilian. I'll admit KW has his faults and has made several major mistakes in his tenure, but he's not an idiot, scumbag like Guillen. We all get it, Ozzie Guillen tickles your fancy with his wit and funny accent. I just can't believe you have the nerve to believe a guy that performs felicia on the entire Guillen family in exchange for "secret" information.

[greg775]

Not surprising. I assume you're this guy:

 

 

No need to get personal. Oh I can take a joke. I assume it's a joke. Ha ha.

Milk I don't know why u have so much trouble dealing with conflicting opinions. People say I need help. But IMO I can at least handle a difference of opinion with aplomb.

[greg775]

I dont believe anything in any newspaper (hyperbole obviously), Im kind of a cynic.

 

I believe in the badger. What he says goes on this topic. Badger if what Cowley writes is true, isn't that alarming behavior by Coop?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Cowley is such a hopeless fool.

 

 

[southsideirish71]

I believe in the badger. What he says goes on this topic. Badger if what Cowley writes is true, isn't that alarming behavior by Coop?

 

What if it isnt true. What if it's make believe from a guy with a limited education, his spawn, and his lackey.

[Soxbadger]

lol I wouldnt put faith in me, Im good at failed expectations.

 

Assuming for the sake of argument that Cowley is correct, then obviously its a messed up situation. The problem is that Cowley really hasnt proven to be a reliable source, and in some peoples opinion his nothing more than a shill for the Guillen clan.

 

Personally I dont know, I like Robin Ventura and that is all that really matters. I dont like to get into the gossip columns thats for the birds. (Reading his column today was the first time in at least a year or longer)

Edited October 7, 2011 by Soxbadger

[macsandz]

This hire was made as much for this roster as it is a representation of a positive culture change and I'm all for it. You think guys that the young core of this team going forward -guys like Beckham, Morel, Viciedo, Sale...etc. had any kind of rapport with Ozzie?! No f*cking chance. Not after he trashed them publicly before they even arrived.

 

BTW, if it hasn't been mentioned already, KW described Ventura's style based on his interviews as a progressive approach based in sabermetrics as well as old-school where players are expected to look beyond themselves (i.e. get out of the video room and their own heads) and always are held accountable.

 

Love it. Sign me up.

[kitekrazy]

wtf

 

W..........

 

T.........

 

F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[greg775]

What if it isnt true. What if it's make believe from a guy with a limited education, his spawn, and his lackey.

 

 

lol I wouldnt put faith in me, Im good at failed expectations.

 

Assuming for the sake of argument that Cowley is correct, then obviously its a messed up situation. The problem is that Cowley really hasnt proven to be a reliable source, and in some peoples opinion his nothing more than a shill for the Guillen clan.

 

Personally I dont know, I like Robin Ventura and that is all that really matters. I dont like to get into the gossip columns thats for the birds. (Reading his column today was the first time in at least a year or longer)

 

1.) If it isn't true there should be repercussions to the reporter. Suspension or firing. He had some wild stuff in there.

2.) I can buy the Badger's response. No offense to anybody else, but I like his tone. If Cowley isn't reliable, fine, there could be some doubt. But I'm assuming his bosses would reprimand him if this story wasn't true, so I have to go by what I read, don't I? And I'm alarmed by Coop's alleged behavior.

[kitekrazy]

Man I really cant believe that people are negative on this move. Most people have assumed that Robin would be a hot coaching option as soon as he decided that he wanted to coach. The fact that the Sox were actually able to convince him to coach is pretty impressive.

 

Im not sure what experience has to do with coaching baseball. This isnt football where you call plays, its baseball and Im pretty sure that I could program a computer to make better decisions than Ozzie.

 

"IF A stats against LHP > B stats against LHP replace B with A."

 

Robin is exactly the opposite of Ozzie, which is exactly what this team needs. This is one of the few hires that Id actually be interested in.

 

It really isnt difficult to be a baseball manager, and its almost impossible to be worse than Ozzie "I make the line ups" Guillen.

 

"Hello."

 

"Hi Robin this is Kenny. How ya doin?"

 

"I'm just chillin' watchin' some TV."

 

"Great, great. Listen.....you wanna manage the White Sox?"

 

"mmmm, I guess so."

 

 

 

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Greg,

 

The problem is that there is very little accountability in journalism because reporters are merely relying on their sources. Cowley's source could be a disgruntled employee who hates Cooper, he could be Reinsdorf's kid, you never know the legitimacy of an anonymous source. I personally dislike anonymity, any story that does not reveal the sources is suspicious in my opinion.

 

Also, why would Cooper not end up as manager? If hes this power hungry monster, wouldnt that be the end game here?

 

It just seems pretty far fetched, when the more likely scenario is that Ozzie wore out his welcome. You just cant act the way he did and not produce, its tiresome.

[mcgrad70]

ChrisDeLuca Chris De Luca

More Ken Williams on Robin Ventura: "With the current roster, and our future roster, he is just the guy that we have to have." #whitesox

3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[/quote

 

A guy who garners little expectation from an organization rolling down the street of oblivion

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

1.) If it isn't true there should be repercussions to the reporter. Suspension or firing. He had some wild stuff in there.

2.) I can buy the Badger's response. No offense to anybody else, but I like his tone. If Cowley isn't reliable, fine, there could be some doubt. But I'm assuming his bosses would reprimand him if this story wasn't true, so I have to go by what I read, don't I? And I'm alarmed by Coop's alleged behavior.

Sun Times bosses reprimanding Cowley over his articles would be like Kim Chee telling Kamala to stop rubbing his belly.

[mcgrad70]

I can't wait until Robin resigns in a year and half after realizing the stresses of managing are a lot more than he anticipated.

[/quote

 

A lot more optimistic than me.

He'll resign by Memorial Day or Dunn's 100th strikeout which ever comes first.

My money's on the big guy.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Who our manager is won't matter in 2012 because we're going to suck. It might not even matter in 2013 or 2014. This move gives Kenny a guy he can tell what to do, JR a former player he can try to promote, and the Sox as a whole a few years of "rebuilding" as an excuse. As for Robin, who the hell knows if he'll be any good. Which is why this move is so bizarre that you can't rip it, but also can't understand it.

 

We're screwed as long as Kenny Williams is here anyway IMO. Letting him stay around after the last few years is basically like letting a guy who burned down a house and pissed on the ashes attempt to rebuild the house when he's never built a house from scratch before. I just hope that one day, Robin gets a talented enough team to prove to us whether or not he can manage. I don't have faith he will.

[mcgrad70]

No one else seeing this move as Kenny putting himself on the line even more now?

 

MattSpiegel for example sees it like that, so does my huge Sox friend that doesn't frequent the board.. he also thinks we're not in rebuild mode and that he expects a solid offseason and competing next year, TTFWIW.

 

not at all...this reeks of Reinsdorf...

Kenny's in no more danger of losing his today than he was yesterday.

 

[DirtySox]

Bernstein's assessment of the situation and the Ventura hiring is pretty much how I view things.

 

Adam Dunn is going nowhere.

 

Neither is Alex Rios or Jake Peavy. They are useless and expensive White Sox property until somebody else wants them.

Kenny Williams lost his poker bet, after he pushed Jerry Reinsdorf’s chips to the middle of the table and birthed a regrettable marketing slogan. Now, he’s entrenching – cutting payroll, giving chances to whatever young players he can while hoping against hope that his bad bets can be salvaged, somehow.

 

Robin Ventura gets to oversee this uncomfortable, shaky time, which is better-termed “unbuilding” or “midbuilding.”

“Rebuilding,” you see, assumes you have the bricks arranged in blocks on the curb, ready to use. Coils of wire waiting to be threaded, big slabs of granite countertop coming off delivery trucks, set for installation. The Sox are staring at a deteriorating house that needs foundation work, before it’s time to argue about bath fixtures, compare shades of paint, or select Tuscan-villa backsplash tiles.

 

Ventura is a nice, smart guy who may be good manager, eventually. He’ll get two years to learn on the job – probably next to some potbellied old salt on the bench – before the path to contention is cleared of self-made debris. Sox fans were not going to line up for season tickets based on the announcement of any manager in this big picture. Not Terry Francona, Sandy Alomar or Dave Martinez. Not the reanimated, zombie corpse of John McGraw, packed into a three-piece suit and groaning for brains to eat. Well, maybe that.

 

Follow the money: they took a bath this year, and now know that the next two seasons look bleak, save for the improbable snap-backs from veteran deadweights. No reason to pay more than needed for a bigger-name caretaker, especially if they truly believe Ventura is a real prospect. Save the extra millions for players, or bonuses that can be paid to draft picks. More importantly, Williams sleeps easy. He’s solidified his power, installed what appears at first glance to be a passive subordinate, and publicly bought lowered expectations while he mollifies his bosses by making life less risky and less expensive. Reinsdorf adores Ventura. Heck, who doesn’t? But neither he nor we know if the guy can do the job. It looks like he gets two years to prove it, as he rides the new bet on regression to the statistical mean by brutal underachievers.

 

Williams, for the first time, has made the tacit admission that he’s not going for it. It’s his fault he has to deviate from pattern, sure, but his position within the administration is stronger than ever.

Worst case, the Sox tank this year and Ventura finishes the year looking like Mike Quade, a likeable guy reduced to gibbering, overmatched loon. (I’m betting against that, by the way. Ventura has an easygoing calm lacking in the twitchy Quade, and his sixteen years on big-league teams in Chicago, New York and Los Angeles may have better prepared him for limelight life than bumping around on backroad bus trips, eating at Denny’s.)

 

Best case, Dunn rebounds, Rios tries, Peavy deals and Gordon Beckham improves. Tyler Flowers earns a platoon with an aging A.J. Pierzynski. Dayan Viciedo rakes. Everybody looks smart. I wouldn’t bet on the latter, but at least I understand the reasoning. Whether or not Ventura is a good manager right now doesn’t really matter.

 

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/10/06/ber...es-why-ventura/

Edited October 7, 2011 by DirtySox

[mcgrad70]

Do you really think this was KW's idea? If it was, it most likely was to keep him in the good graces of the Chairman, not that it wasn't genius, even if by accident.

 

Then Williams has no pride and he's just desperate.

If Reinsdorf once again interfered in his managerial decision, he should have resigned on the spot.

 

[Milkman delivers]

Sun Times bosses reprimanding Cowley over his articles would be like Kim Chee telling Kamala to stop rubbing his belly.

 

Haha, awesome!

[Milkman delivers]

Who our manager is won't matter in 2012 because we're going to suck. It might not even matter in 2013 or 2014. This move gives Kenny a guy he can tell what to do, JR a former player he can try to promote, and the Sox as a whole a few years of "rebuilding" as an excuse. As for Robin, who the hell knows if he'll be any good. Which is why this move is so bizarre that you can't rip it, but also can't understand it.

 

We're screwed as long as Kenny Williams is here anyway IMO. Letting him stay around after the last few years is basically like letting a guy who burned down a house and pissed on the ashes attempt to rebuild the house when he's never built a house from scratch before. I just hope that one day, Robin gets a talented enough team to prove to us whether or not he can manage. I don't have faith he will.

 

I love that analogy

 

And I know people will just dismiss this by saying that most of them failed, but I checked through the last 3 managers of each AL team. The only guys with no previous experience in any type of coaching or managing background were Joe Torre (again, back in 1977 after he was a player-manager) and Alan Trammell. I'm too lazy to go through the NL right now.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Is there actually such a thing as a Sox fan anymore? By that I mean, is there anyone out there who hopes the team does well, and who would rather be positive about the future? I find it kind of strange that coming off one of the most disappointing Sox seasons in history that there are still people out there who not only think we can do much worse, but also seem to hope we do worse, and appear to be eager to see the team fail so they can be "right" rather than enjoy a future season of competitive baseball.

[mcgrad70]

Am I missing something? Why do people think this? If we are "All-In" again next year, we hire the most unproven commodity there is to manage the ball club? (I'm not against his hiring) What about Kenny's comments that he doesn't expect Ventura to hit the ground running, and that he will have to grow into the job over the years? The reiteration that there won't be a marquee signing this offseason? The comments about reining it in and playing the kids because of always trying for that knockout punch? Maybe I'm completely off-base, but it seems to me that they are hiring a younger green manager (which I'm okay with) to go along with the younger inexperienced roster of this year and perhaps next.

 

Maybe it's just me but I ASSUME a team in no less than the 3rd largest baseball market is in it to win it - every year.

So Jerry-Baby has been holding out on us all those years, uh?

He's committed one time and one time only and goes 79-83.

 

When you settle for mediocrity, that's exactly what you'll get from Reinsdorf.

Well, he'll do it next year with one less season ticket holder.

Edited October 7, 2011 by mcgrad70