KW: Joe Cowley a Liar

[The Critic]

Hey you may be right about him being thin skinned, but I don't believe he comes close to Ozzie in that department. Or vindictiveness.

Oh, there's no doubt about that. I was just pointing out that Coop has gotten real pissy about a bunch of stuff during interviews when the subject matter gets a little tougher than ass-kissing or rah-rah stuff.

[caulfield12]

I like this take.

 

 

Which always goes back to what is considered his (Reinsdorf's) biggest flaw/weakness simultaneously, being TOO loyal.

 

As Cooper mentioned, anyone who worked for an organization like that for as long as he had (26 years) would be "freaking crazy/insane" to want to go somewhere else...coming from someone whose sick, 85 year-old mother could have been minutes away from him in New York if he ended up with the Yankees' job.

 

Ozzie's definitely not going to be given as much rope in Florida. Maybe if he goes back to managing to win and not simply in order to win a battle of internecine cock-fighting with his own GM, he can once again be an effective manager. Greg does have a point there.

 

KW has come across as defensive, disappearing intentionally on a chaotic team when he was most needed and then offering to fall on the sword (for the umpteenth time) for a mess of his own creation. That doesn't inspire much confidence. Of course, he can argue he was trying to hide from the clubhouse/field to prevent further distractions to the team/clubhouse/chemistry, but that rings a little bit hollow. Then again, what he was actually going to be capable of doing to fix things while forced to hold onto Guillen as a manager, obviously a very difficult situation to be in for someone so proud. Which is obviously a large reason he chose to become scarce and was dinged for appearing in places off-the-field while Rome was burning, so to speak.

 

Of course, Billy Beane often does/did the same type of thing. It's cute when the team is winning, it's irresponsible/neglectful when every aspect of the organization you're directing is going south.

Edited October 7, 2011 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Ah, those that have eyes, let them see . . .

 

. . . I believe it was bozzie himself, yours truly, who spent all summer peeling back the curtains on the Kenny/Ozzie soap opera, and the pawns Ozzie used that were Dung and Rios; it all sprang from Ozzie's demand that Jim Thome be gone'd and Mark Kotsay be DH . . . and it all manifested itself and properly so in the jettisoning of the foul-mouthed, tamale-toting Guillen. Finally. But what did bozzie get for his advocacy? Banned from this board from the overzealous mods.

 

I forgive you, mods. I know it's not easy to recognize the seer within your midst . . .

 

 

"Advocacy" of what exactly?

 

Second of all, instead of throwing out stereotypical or racist assertions, check out the national foods of Venezuela. Most would consider the tamale a Mexican food first and foremost, particularly because of its roots in the Aztec and Mayan/Guatemalan civilizations.

 

It's really stretching it with the Incas, because they had very little presence in what is now modern-day Venezuela....more Colombia down south through Ecuador, the heart of the empire in Peru and northern Chile.

 

 

Early Latin American civilizations were warring communities, and the idea of the tamale probably spread with traveling troops. The earliest record of the food is from 5000 BC, although they most likely were around earlier, perhaps as early as 7000 BC. The Mayans settled the modern-day Yucatan Peninsula while the Aztecs developed in the Valley of Mexico where Mexico City is currently. The Incan empire stretched from Columbia through Chile in South America.

 

Function

 

Corn, or maize, husks were first used. With fighting soldiers come very hungry stomachs. At first, women were brought to the war camps in order to make food for the warriors. Traditional meals could not be made quickly enough so the women created tamales. They could be made ahead of time, packed and easily transported, and quickly heated.

 

 

Read more: Where Did Tamales Originate? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7460870_did-tama...l#ixzz1a85BmECI

Edited October 7, 2011 by caulfield12

[LVSoxFan]

Hey did KW really make the comment that Ventura's going to learn on the job? I'm trying to confirm that.

[thedoctor]

every day that passes, stories about the ozzie/kw rift and all of the things that grew out of it get less and less relevant. eventually, the writer is going to run out of new angles to take on essentially the same story. clicks on those stories are going to decrease and likely his leash will shorten. we can all be happy with that.

 

the sad thing to me is that back in the day this guy was a pretty damn good reporter. he just started believing he was part of the game. it's too bad because he had potential if he was willing to do more than just claim a schtick and stick to it.

[chw42]

After listening to that interview I can see why Coop didn't get the job.

He's a wildman with that accent and edge.

 

I love his work and like his attitude but no way he could deal with the media twice a day.

You guys are right bout that one.

 

Then what's Ozzie with his accent and edge?

[Lemon_44]

The most amazing thing to me in the Coop interview was right at the beginning. After OG signed his extension, he was asked about his assisstants and, according to Coop, Ozzie said let them sweat. I've been a defender of Ozzie but that's pretty bad, if true. I don't see what, or why, or how, that could be good for a team on any level. OG wuold always defend his coaches publicly as being hard workers, why would he want them to "sweat" waiting on a contract extension?

[caulfield12]

The most amazing thing to me in the Coop interview was right at the beginning. After OG signed his extension, he was asked about his assisstants and, according to Coop, Ozzie said let them sweat. I've been a defender of Ozzie but that's pretty bad, if true. I don't see what, or why, or how, that could be good for a team on any level. OG wuold always defend his coaches publicly as being hard workers, why would he want them to "sweat" waiting on a contract extension?

 

 

And then all the lip service to motivating the team to finish 2nd instead of 3rd because of the coaches' families and that share would mean an extra $10,000 or something per coach...what a joke.

[Milkman delivers]

Is there anything of substance to the 150+ posts I missed? If so, I'll go back and read it. But if it's just quibbling back and forth about Cowley, I'm not interested.

[kitekrazy]

This.

 

Imagine how the team could have performed this year if everyone was on the same page.

 

Sounds like the players need an excuse for their under achievement. I don't buy into the soap opera having an effect on the players. Its their job to concentrate on baseball.

 

[kitekrazy]

Is there anything of substance to the 150+ posts I missed? If so, I'll go back and read it. But if it's just quibbling back and forth about Cowley, I'm not interested.

 

It would be nice if we let it all would go away. There's a new manager. How much attention can Cowley get on old news.

 

[kitekrazy]

Hey you may be right about him being thin skinned, but I don't believe he comes close to Ozzie in that department. Or vindictiveness.

 

Have you ever listened to Coop on the SCORE? He was like this even in 2005.

 

[StrangeSox]

Hey did KW really make the comment that Ventura's going to learn on the job? I'm trying to confirm that.

During the conference call he made out clear that they expect a learning curve

[southsider2k5]

Sounds like the players need an excuse for their under achievement. I don't buy into the soap opera having an effect on the players. Its their job to concentrate on baseball.

 

That is a lot harder when it is your manager who is distracting you...

[Dick Allen]

That is a lot harder when it is your manager who is distracting you...

A player told Kurtjian the team talked more about Ozzie/KW than the game, so ending that fiasco probably makes the team better already.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Milkman delivers]

Ozzie's behavior created this.

 

This is the most truthful statement in the thread.

[Crash73]

The funniest thing to me is that the source of this mess - and no, we'll never know some of the things that have gone on - but at least publicly, if you go by what made OG/KW the most vocal and irate in the media...it really does seem to have been the most embarassingly petty stuff.

 

1) whose KID did or didn't get drafted in what slot

 

2) who's the one who did or didn't want Thome

 

 

The only eye-opening thing about the Cooper interview today is this clearer glimpse of just how ridiculously chaotic the organization has been this year. Makes you wonder why a fan would bother expending so much energy on a group that does not have its s*** together. Ozzie- very flawed individual. But to put it all on him is silly when the things you hear about KW inspire something far from confidence going forward.

Thank you for the sensibility.

[SI1020]

Have you ever listened to Coop on the SCORE? He was like this even in 2005.

So he was a little high strung, but I think he defended himself well against the snake in the grass Cowley.

 

[JohnCangelosi]

So he was a little high strung, but I think he defended himself well against the snake in the grass Cowley.

 

I disagree, he didn't answer anything directly, and seemed extremely defensive and did the old "lie, deny and re-accuse" strategy which most of us guys know quite well (especially when our wives or girlfriends accuse us of wrongdoing that we were probably guilty of).

 

How he answered the lie detector test question was hilarious as well (no one would expect him to actually do it, but how he RESPONDED is very telling).

 

Quite frankly, I wouldn't blame Cooper if he did indeed go around the back of Ozzie and asked for an extension, knowing that Ozzie's antics and overall poor performance was going to translate no Ozzie in 2012. Cooper has been in the organization for 26 years and has more loyalty to JR than Ozzie, that is 100%, so is it so crazy to think he would pass along information about what was going on in the clubhouse to KW or JR when he felt it was negatively affecting the organization? If you were the owner of a company wouldn't you want one of your employees to do the same knowing they could not talk to their boss about a problem that was eating away at your business?

 

Some would argue it would be reckless to NOT point out there are serious problems, so I have no problem with it, quite honestly because it was clear what a joke the clubhouse had become and this team had given up on Ozzie (as many of us said the team was playing like most of the year).

 

Now we know that to be true. This team gave up under Ozzie. PATHETIC.

 

Bottom line- I believe Cowley's story, and at the same time I have no problem with Cooper doing what he did, even though he cannot come out publicly and say it, obviously.

[elrockinMT]

A player told Kurtjian the team talked more about Ozzie/KW than the game, so ending that fiasco probably makes the team better already.

 

 

Yes, but you have only ended half the fiasco

[southsider2k5]

I disagree, he didn't answer anything directly, and seemed extremely defensive and did the old "lie, deny and re-accuse" strategy which most of us guys know quite well (especially when our wives or girlfriends accuse us of wrongdoing that we were probably guilty of).

 

How he answered the lie detector test question was hilarious as well (no one would expect him to actually do it, but how he RESPONDED is very telling).

 

Quite frankly, I wouldn't blame Cooper if he did indeed go around the back of Ozzie and asked for an extension, knowing that Ozzie's antics and overall poor performance was going to translate no Ozzie in 2012. Cooper has been in the organization for 26 years and has more loyalty to JR than Ozzie, that is 100%, so is it so crazy to think he would pass along information about what was going on in the clubhouse to KW or JR when he felt it was negatively affecting the organization? If you were the owner of a company wouldn't you want one of your employees to do the same knowing they could not talk to their boss about a problem that was eating away at your business?

 

Some would argue it would be reckless to NOT point out there are serious problems, so I have no problem with it, quite honestly because it was clear what a joke the clubhouse had become and this team had given up on Ozzie (as many of us said the team was playing like most of the year).

 

Now we know that to be true. This team gave up under Ozzie. PATHETIC.

Bottom line- I believe Cowley's story, and at the same time I have no problem with Cooper doing what he did, even though he cannot come out publicly and say it, obviously.

 

Again, Cooper was referring to attempting to get Ozzie fired when he called Cowley a liar. That is very, very obvious.

[jenksycat]

Yes, but you have only ended half the fiasco

 

The fiasco was the bickering between the coach and GM. Unless you are expecting the bickering to continue with Robin, that particular fiasco is gone.