Steve9347 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:01 AM) True, but I do think it's pretty valid to assume a more disciplined organization with ozzie gone. Yeah, even the circus this morning is directly relating to Ozzie. I look forward to a time when he's been long-gone. We all knew Cowley would be getting some "scoop" whenever a hire was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 10:59 AM) How does Ozzie dare calling himself Chicago tough, when that f***ing idiot quit on the team in June. Chicago tough is not quitting on your team NO MATTER what circumstances. SO GLAD HE IS GONE, again. Ozzie can say anything and to him and his family, it's the gospel truth. He could say "I'm a cosmonaut", and he'd be one. So, he only has to say he's Chicago tough, or that he's loyal, etc. and it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Read the thread Cowley appears to have been proven correct about the dysfunction. Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, but isn't that true. Edited October 7, 2011 by Marty34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:22 AM) Read the thread Cowley appears to have been proven correct about the dysfunction. Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, but isn't that true. Everyone knew about the dysfunction. And if that's your best defense of him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:22 AM) Read the thread Cowley appears to have been proven correct about the dysfunction. Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, but isn't that true. Hey Joe, one out of 100 rumors you and Ozzie/Oney spread is not a success rate of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 10:58 AM) It's unfortunate the other half is still here making "bold" decisions hiring gutty guys like Ventura with no experience nor idea how to handle a Major League ballclub. I want to know that how, in your opinion, does Ventura not know how to handle a big league club after playing 2,000 games in a big league clubhouse? Is there some magic that happens once you move into a minor league manager's office that we dont know about? Does coaching 3rd base like "Wavin Wendel" give you some ridiculous insight into the psyche of major league ballplayers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Regardless of what one thinks about Cowley, it's still on the FO to prevent dysfunction like what we apparently had. If prevention is out then we're faced with 'cleanup'. Here's to another try at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:33 AM) Regardless of what one thinks about Cowley, it's still on the FO to prevent dysfunction like what we apparently had. If prevention is out then we're faced with 'cleanup'. Here's to another try at it. According to "sources" on one side was Ozzie and his family, on the other side was the entire White Sox organization including a 20+ year pitching coach, the GM, the owner, the Minor League Director and so on. To get rid of dysfunction you have to eliminate one side, and they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 10:52 AM) There is no doubt in my mind they both spent the summer trying to hang each other. None. +1 As I mentioned in that thread I started, I think this war started when KW publicly threw Ozzie under the bus (to use his term) for Jim Thome not coming back. I remember thinking: what the hell just happened here? And it was during Soxfest, if I recall! But yeah, it would bubble up when Ozzie would continually play Rios/Dunn for no apparent reason and then of course with the infamous (even I was like WTF?! and I don't second-guess managers a lot) Dunn Pinch-Hits for Lilly debacle. In fact, now that I think about it with these two, I could easily see how KW rubbed the DH-by-committee in Ozzie's face, which is why Ozzie took every opportunity to rub Your Big Signing No-Hitting DH right back in his. I think the team was simply a prop in a war between these two. No wonder 2011 sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:33 AM) I want to know that how, in your opinion, does Ventura not know how to handle a big league club after playing 2,000 games in a big league clubhouse? During those 2000 games was he ever asked to discipline a trouble maker? Was he asked to yank a player for dogging it? Has he ever pulled a pitcher that wanted to stay in the game? Has he ever dealt with an under-performing starter with an up and coming bench player in their shadow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:42 PM) During those 2000 games was he ever asked to discipline a trouble maker? Was he asked to yank a player for dogging it? Has he ever pulled a pitcher that wanted to stay in the game? Has he ever dealt with an under-performing starter with an up and coming bench player in their shadow? Did he have to create workout routines for spring training? Decide how many at bats/innings the player who struggled last year needs to get? Decide when to cut and run on a struggling guy versus giving him another shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 04:42 PM) During those 2000 games was he ever asked to discipline a trouble maker? Was he asked to yank a player for dogging it? Has he ever pulled a pitcher that wanted to stay in the game? Has he ever dealt with an under-performing starter with an up and coming bench player in their shadow? Good points sqwert, but at the same time, Ozzie failed miserably in these particular situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:33 AM) I want to know that how, in your opinion, does Ventura not know how to handle a big league club after playing 2,000 games in a big league clubhouse? Is there some magic that happens once you move into a minor league manager's office that we dont know about? Does coaching 3rd base like "Wavin Wendel" give you some ridiculous insight into the psyche of major league ballplayers? I'd prefer the new incoming manager, after many years in a row of disappointment, to have done something more than be a volunteer high school hitting coach. I'd like to see some sort of passion for the game. I'd like to see someone who didn't make it a point to get away from the game. I'd certainly like to see someone who had better things to say about the position than Robin did yesterday. Ventura said he had had no thoughts of managing and that thought he eventually might ease his way into coaching after accepting the minor league position last spring. Well, fantastic. Even he clearly admits he didn't expect nor is ready. ‘‘It took me aback,’’ Ventura said. ‘‘I was not expecting that conversation when we had it.’’ Awesome. Way to take the reigns. You weren't expecting it because you aren't qualified. The fact that Ventura basically said he only accepted the job because he'd be close to home most of the time annoys me. This isn't his job, it's going to be his hobby. He doesn't seem to be jumping in with both feet. He's apprehensive as f***, and I wanted a manager who truly aspired to... manage F*CKING BASEBALL GAMES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) Good points sqwert, but at the same time, Ozzie failed miserably in these particular situations. So the solution to addressing a manager that was awful at those things is to bring in someone who has never experienced any of it? Mind-boggling really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Here's probably what REALLY happened: KW pulled Cooper into his office and asked him "What are the players telling you? What's happening in there?" Joe and his "sources" translate that into Cooper trying to make a power move and force Ozzie out. It's just a way to slime KW and Cooper who have acted far more professionally the last 2 years than Ozzie and it pisses Cowley off. Edited October 7, 2011 by Athomeboy_2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) Did he have to create workout routines for spring training? Decide how many at bats/innings the player who struggled last year needs to get? Decide when to cut and run on a struggling guy versus giving him another shot? Workout routines??? Ya, I bet managers really draw those up not the team of qualified trainers. I'm sure he had thoughts on all of those other points when he was a veteran player but it wasnt his role to actually carry it out. And cutting a player is the GM's call FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:42 AM) During those 2000 games was he ever asked to discipline a trouble maker? Was he asked to yank a player for dogging it? Has he ever pulled a pitcher that wanted to stay in the game? Has he ever dealt with an under-performing starter with an up and coming bench player in their shadow? Yes, he probably chewed out a players while in a clubhouse in his career a few times, in fact one instance he did it to Big Frank. All of those situations you listed he has been through at the major league level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 More excellent arguments to the fact that managers indeed do absolutely nothing, which seems to be the only argument on the side of those who agree with this hire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) Yes, he probably chewed out a players while in a clubhouse in his career a few times, in fact one instance he did it to Big Frank. All of those situations you listed he has been through at the major league level. I give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 05:49 PM) More excellent arguments to the fact that managers indeed do absolutely nothing, which seems to be the only argument on the side of those who agree with this hire. I just think there should be player managers. Saves you some salary, I see no downside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Run this unprofessional embarrassment out of town. Coop and now Kenny. Looks like he will have zero sources from now on. Although it's not like he had many to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) I give up. It's as if Ken "The Hawk" Harrelson posts on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I don't think Ventura's lack of managerial experience tells us anything about how he'll respond in key situations. Put a good experienced bench coach with him and I think Ventura's lack of experience will be a virtual non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 04:45 PM) So the solution to addressing a manager that was awful at those things is to bring in someone who has never experienced any of it? Mind-boggling really. I don't blame you for the skepticism at all. I'm pretty sure the Sox could have hired Terry Bevington, and I would have been just as happy that the previous regime is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Cowley is a scum bag and a liar.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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