Balta1701 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) Workout routines??? Ya, I bet managers really draw those up not the team of qualified trainers. I'm sure he had thoughts on all of those other points when he was a veteran player but it wasnt his role to actually carry it out. And cutting a player is the GM's call FYI. So either you're deliberately missing the point or you're accidentally defending Ozzie Guillen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Cowley is following in the footsteps of Mariotti in perfect fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:35 AM) According to "sources" on one side was Ozzie and his family, on the other side was the entire White Sox organization including a 20+ year pitching coach, the GM, the owner, the Minor League Director and so on. To get rid of dysfunction you have to eliminate one side, and they did. Ozzie did plenty wrong. But the Sox hired him, knew he'd be wild, and couldn't work with him the right way. That's not being blameless. The fact that it worked well for awhile and then didn't means Ozzie wasn't a total trainwreck-- that one way or another there were problems adapting to changes. JR has brought us managerial choices like Manuel and Bevington, so I'm far from out of line when I say the Sox have something to prove with regard to making a mess and then having to clean it up. Edited October 7, 2011 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:33 AM) Regardless of what one thinks about Cowley, it's still on the FO to prevent dysfunction like what we apparently had. If prevention is out then we're faced with 'cleanup'. Here's to another try at it. If the rumors are true, Kenny did try firing Ozzie, but Jerry wouldn't let him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:40 AM) +1 As I mentioned in that thread I started, I think this war started when KW publicly threw Ozzie under the bus (to use his term) for Jim Thome not coming back. I remember thinking: what the hell just happened here? And it was during Soxfest, if I recall! But yeah, it would bubble up when Ozzie would continually play Rios/Dunn for no apparent reason and then of course with the infamous (even I was like WTF?! and I don't second-guess managers a lot) Dunn Pinch-Hits for Lilly debacle. In fact, now that I think about it with these two, I could easily see how KW rubbed the DH-by-committee in Ozzie's face, which is why Ozzie took every opportunity to rub Your Big Signing No-Hitting DH right back in his. I think the team was simply a prop in a war between these two. No wonder 2011 sucked. Ozzie decided that publicly long before Soxfest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Cowley never showed up for his timeslot on the Score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:06 PM) If the rumors are true, Kenny did try firing Ozzie, but Jerry wouldn't let him. The more all this stuff leaks out, the more I think JR was a major reason why we wasted $127 million this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:07 PM) Cowley never showed up for his timeslot on the Score. they said he'll be on around 12:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:42 AM) During those 2000 games was he ever asked to discipline a trouble maker? Was he asked to yank a player for dogging it? Has he ever pulled a pitcher that wanted to stay in the game? Has he ever dealt with an under-performing starter with an up and coming bench player in their shadow? If the stories are true, he was involved in the background for a lot of those types of things as a player. Obviously he hasn't done it publicly, but there are stories out there about Robin getting into Frank's face during some of his sulking fits, and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) The more all this stuff leaks out, the more I think JR was a major reason why we wasted $127 million this season. I think I've been suggesting that for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:09 PM) If the stories are true, he was involved in the background for a lot of those types of things as a player. Obviously he hasn't done it publicly, but there are stories out there about Robin getting into Frank's face during some of his sulking fits, and the like. What do you mean by the bolded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) Yes, he probably chewed out a players while in a clubhouse in his career a few times, in fact one instance he did it to Big Frank. All of those situations you listed he has been through at the major league level. Oops, needed to read a bit further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) Ozzie did plenty wrong. But the Sox hired him, knew he'd be wild, and couldn't work with him the right way. That's not being blameless. The fact that it worked well for awhile and then didn't means Ozzie wasn't a total trainwreck-- that one way or another there were problems adapting to changes. JR has brought us managerial choices like Manuel and Bevington, so I'm far from out of line when I say the Sox have something to prove with regard to making a mess and then having to clean it up. How do you work with Ozzie, "the right way"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:10 PM) What do you mean by the bolded? The Frank instance wasn't the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:12 PM) The Frank instance wasn't the only one. Well that's conveniently vague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:13 PM) Well that's conveniently vague. Crap you caught me. RockRaines and I got together, despite us never meeting, to plan on making up the exact same story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:15 PM) Crap you caught me. RockRaines and I got together, despite us never meeting, to plan on making up the exact same story. What story? All I've heard is that he got in Frank's face once. What am I missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:13 PM) Well that's conveniently vague. Conveniently related to the thread topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:15 PM) What story? All I've heard is that he got in Frank's face once. What am I missing here? That's why I am trying to figure out. People asked about Robin's role in the locker room, they got an anecdote from his playing days. What is the big problem here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:18 PM) That's why I am trying to figure out. People asked about Robin's role in the locker room, they got an anecdote from his playing days. What is the big problem here? I listed a bunch of things a manager would be expected to do. Then I read that he got in Frank's face once. Now I'm supposed to believe that he has expertise in those areas I listed? That's a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:00 AM) Ozzie did plenty wrong. But the Sox hired him, knew he'd be wild, and couldn't work with him the right way. That's not being blameless. The fact that it worked well for awhile and then didn't means Ozzie wasn't a total trainwreck-- that one way or another there were problems adapting to changes. JR has brought us managerial choices like Manuel and Bevington, so I'm far from out of line when I say the Sox have something to prove with regard to making a mess and then having to clean it up. The biggest thing was the Sox winning the World Series his second year and inflated his head/ego to gigantic proportions and put him (as I'm sure he felt and many others) on this untouchable pedestal. Grateful for the World Series trophy...but in terms of Ozzie...it was probably the worse thing that could have happened in terms of reigning in his huge ego and keeping his self worth in check. He felt he was bigger than the team...IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:42 AM) During those 2000 games was he ever asked to discipline a trouble maker? Was he asked to yank a player for dogging it? Has he ever pulled a pitcher that wanted to stay in the game? Has he ever dealt with an under-performing starter with an up and coming bench player in their shadow? QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 12:19 PM) I listed a bunch of things a manager would be expected to do. Then I read that he got in Frank's face once. Now I'm supposed to believe that he has expertise in those areas I listed? That's a stretch. You got your question answered. Has he ever dealt with some of those situations? Yes. And there is a story out there being told by two different people. If you want to ask how many different times, then ask a different question. Its not a stretch, it is the answer to what you asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Cowley's on the Score now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Cowley said Cooper pulled him aside several times a few years ago to ask him to write that the coaches need extensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 7, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) I give up. You should. Your only argument is that the guy hasnt managed and so he hasnt done manager type things as a manager. You know what, there are plenty of better options out there then with your criteria, I bet Jerry Manuel would like a job again. Was Bob Brenly a better option? I am sick and tired of failed manager retreads, this hire was outside the box yet people actually in the baseball industry are saying it was a good hire. I bet fans on a message board have alot more exposure to Robin's history and demeanor than those people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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