The morning after poll

[southsider2k5]

We are going to keep the poll question simple to see the reaction of Soxtalk. Expound your on answers here so that they are preserved for posterity's sake.

[justBLAZE]

I guess we can bump this in a year to see how many of us PREDICTED right or wrong, because we clearly won't know until then.

Edited October 7, 2011 by justBLAZE

[Steve9347]

Sleeping on it did nothing to make me feel better. In fact, I think it's entirely bulls*** that this organization thinks so little of their management position.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I could see Robin stepping down within a lost year.

[chetkincaid]

Eh... I really don't know. It's so far out there that I haven't had a chance to let it sink in yet. If the Sox are going into full rebuilding mode, then maybe Ventura is the guy.

 

I will say this though... I think that KW knows what's on the horizon and feels like the team has to step back and build up some youthful talent. I STILL believe that there is a monster awaiting in the AL Central in the next few years - and that monster is the Kansas City Royals. I think the AL Central will have it's very own Tampa Bay Rays (very young, very good and very cheap) in the Royals, and KW is preparing to compete with that youth.

 

As far as Ventura... hell I don't know.

[Greg Hibbard]

I know nothing about this man, outside of what he did on the baseball field as a player.

 

What could I have possibly found out about him in the last 24 hours to change that?

 

On paper, it's one of the worst hires in White Sox history.

[flavum]

The hiring is wrong, but it remains to be seen if Ventura can manage.

 

Let's face it, if the other 29 teams had a managerial opening, most wouldn't interview him now, and none would hire him.

 

He paid no dues in the minors or the major league bench.

 

My feeling is that the team will sink or swim with Dunn, Rios, and Beckham next season. Buehrle is gone, and they'll hang on to Danks for a half season until they fall out of it.

 

So basically Ventura will grow into the job over the next couple years while the team struggles concurrently, and we'll know if he can manage a contending team in 2014.

[Balta1701]

I guess we can bump this in a year to see how many of us PREDICTED right or wrong, because we clearly won't know until then.

I really dislike this line of thinking here.

 

This is a gamble with what seems to me to be very poor odds. Poor odd gambles sometimes turn out right. If you went and bout $200k worth of lottery tickets, you still don't have a good shot at winning, but it seems like a great idea in the off chance that it works.

[Balta1701]

So basically Ventura will grow into the job over the next couple years while the team struggles concurrently, and we'll know if he can manage a contending team in 2014.

If this team struggles, especially with some of the egos already on the roster and in the front office, it's hard to see him lasting 3 years. When the Bulls contracted their bad case of VDN, it only lasted for 2, and even then everyone knew it was done after 1.5.

[Greg Hibbard]

I really dislike this line of thinking here.

 

This is a gamble with what seems to me to be very poor odds. Poor odd gambles sometimes turn out right. If you went and bout $200k worth of lottery tickets, you still don't have a good shot at winning, but it seems like a great idea in the off chance that it works.

 

 

Poker pros call it being "results-oriented". One of the worst vices bad poker players have is using results to justify poor gambling decisions.

[flavum]

If this team struggles, especially with some of the egos already on the roster and in the front office, it's hard to see him lasting 3 years. When the Bulls contracted their bad case of VDN, it only lasted for 2, and even then everyone knew it was done after 1.5.

 

I think the situations are very different. If Robin got a 4-year deal, he'll be given four years, or at the very least 3 years.

 

If Robin leaves before then, it will be because he doesn't like managing. And it wouldn't shock me at all if that happens a year or two from now.

[Texsox]

I can see this as a good hire easier than I can see it as a disaster. Since we are predicting, I think he will be a welcome change from Oz. Instead of a "manage from the gut" we will get a more "by the book" manager. I think he will be more fair to players, avoiding the grudges and man-crushes that Ozzie had. Over all I feel confident he is an upgrade, perhaps even a major upgrade.

 

And yes, I am guessing just like everyone else here.

[Reddy]

ya know - i'm actually excited about it. at first i had the same gut "wtf" reaction as everyone else, but why the hell CAN'T he be good. You don't need pedigree to manage a baseball team - Girardi, Torre, and a billion others have gone right from being players to managers. I'm just so glad ozzie's gone - it's like starting with a clean slate. And one that doesn't have its own agenda - which is good. You can't have a GM building a team one way and a manager wanting to play another way. Obviously, as we found out, it doesn't work.

 

that, and Robin Ventura 23 was white-out penned on my trapper keeper in elementary school.

[clyons]

He may turn out to be great, and God love him, I hope he does. But that won't change the fact that hiring someone with absolutely ZERO major league coaching experience was a needless risk for this particular team at this particular time.

[macsandz]

We are going to keep the poll question simple to see the reaction of Soxtalk. Expound your on answers here so that they are preserved for posterity's sake.

 

This hire was made as much for this roster as it is a representation of a positive culture change and I'm all for it. You think guys that the young core of this team going forward -guys like Beckham, Morel, Viciedo, Sale...etc. had any kind of rapport with Ozzie?! No f*cking chance. Not after he trashed them publicly before they even arrived.

 

BTW, if it hasn't been mentioned already, KW described Ventura's style based on his interviews as a progressive approach based in sabermetrics as well as old-school where players are expected to look beyond themselves (i.e. get out of the video room and their own heads) and always are held accountable.

 

Love it. Sign me up.

 

[Milkman delivers]

ya know - i'm actually excited about it. at first i had the same gut "wtf" reaction as everyone else, but why the hell CAN'T he be good. You don't need pedigree to manage a baseball team - Girardi, Torre, and a billion others have gone right from being players to managers. I'm just so glad ozzie's gone - it's like starting with a clean slate. And one that doesn't have its own agenda - which is good. You can't have a GM building a team one way and a manager wanting to play another way. Obviously, as we found out, it doesn't work.

 

that, and Robin Ventura 23 was white-out penned on my trapper keeper in elementary school.

 

This is not true, and I'm tired of people saying it. Girardi was a bench coach, and the vast majority of managers in at least the last 30 years gained experience as coaches or minor league managers before becoming big league managers. You have to start going 50 years back to get a good amount of managers who had no experience whatsoever.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[W1CK3D]

I just hope he isn't another AJ Hinch, a coach with no managerial experience yet we know how that one turned out. I guess we will know within a year from now how he is.

[BigSqwert]

This is not true, and I'm tired of people saying it. Girardi was a bench coach, and the vast majority of managers in at least the last 30 years gained experience as coaches or minor league managers before becoming big league managers. You have to start going 50 years back to get a good amount of managers who had no experience whatsoever.

No. Reddy is correct. There have been billions of guys hired in the past with zero experience.

[Soxbadger]

You guys can keep trying to misconstrue the argument all you want, be so far no one has shown me a correlation of experience = results or no experience= no results.

 

You bring up Joe Girardi, at what time does a guy get enough experience? What is your magic number, 1 year, 5 years, 20 years?

 

The argument is that experience alone does not make a manager (neither good nor bad).

 

I personally think the hire was an out of the box move, it remains to be seen whether it pays off or not, but I feel hes a huge upgrade to Ozzie, and I prefer him to Martinez/Alomar as well.

[Steve9347]

You guys can keep trying to misconstrue the argument all you want, be so far no one has shown me a correlation of experience = results or no experience= no results.

 

You bring up Joe Girardi, at what time does a guy get enough experience? What is your magic number, 1 year, 5 years, 20 years?

 

The argument is that experience alone does not make a manager (neither good nor bad).

 

I personally think the hire was an out of the box move, it remains to be seen whether it pays off or not, but I feel hes a huge upgrade to Ozzie, and I prefer him to Martinez/Alomar as well.

Jesus, put the pom-poms down for two seconds.

[Quin]

You guys can keep trying to misconstrue the argument all you want, be so far no one has shown me a correlation of experience = results or no experience= no results.

 

You bring up Joe Girardi, at what time does a guy get enough experience? What is your magic number, 1 year, 5 years, 20 years?

 

The argument is that experience alone does not make a manager (neither good nor bad).

 

I personally think the hire was an out of the box move, it remains to be seen whether it pays off or not, but I feel hes a huge upgrade to Ozzie, and I prefer him to Martinez/Alomar as well.

 

Yeah, whatever the magic number, Robin didn't meet it.

[Wanne]

I just hope he isn't another AJ Hinch, a coach with no managerial experience yet we know how that one turned out. I guess we will know within a year from now how he is.

 

This is a VERY bad example. a. Hinch couldn't hold Robin's jock strap as a player. b. Many out here thought Hinch was a major brown noser who sucked ass up the ladder with the former regime in AZ...plus...he was only 34 when he was hired as manager and probably not one of the players on that team respected the man.

[southsider2k5]

Wow, 18-11 in favor of the hire so far. I am surprised. I want to hear more from the quiet majority! Why is this good/

[Paulstar]

I just hope he isn't another AJ Hinch, a coach with no managerial experience yet we know how that one turned out. I guess we will know within a year from now how he is.

The difference is that AJ Hinch was a front office guy who was hired to run the team completely on sabermetrics.

[Rex Kickass]

This is not true, and I'm tired of people saying it. Girardi was a bench coach, and the vast majority of managers in at least the last 30 years gained experience as coaches or minor league managers before becoming big league managers. You have to start going 50 years back to get a good amount of managers who had no experience whatsoever.

 

I also don't know why people use Joe Torre as an example. As a player/manager or a manager with the New York Mets, (when he first started) he had a proud .425 winning percentage.

[TheChrisSamsa]

I know nothing about this man, outside of what he did on the baseball field as a player.

 

What could I have possibly found out about him in the last 24 hours to change that?

 

On paper, it's one of the worst hires in White Sox history.

 

On paper, signing Adam Dunn was good for the 2011 season.

 

Paper means nothing. I don't suffer from the fear of the unknown like many around here do. Just because Martinez has coached next to Maddon for so long, or because Alomar didn't leave the field when he was done playing doesn't make either a better candidate to manage an MLB team; it hardly even makes them more experienced. Robin is a blank slate, ready to create his image and his philosophy as a manager. Maybe he'll be great, maybe he'll be a flop. Just because we don't know what type of manager or "baseball man" he is, doesn't mean this is a bad hire. It's not safe; that's all we know.