southsider2k5 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...rtnerId=rss_cws Math points to White Sox youth movement By Scott Merkin / MLB.com | 10/07/11 9:24 PM ET Comments (32) print e-mail CHICAGO -- Let's put together a simple Major League Baseball equation in relation to the White Sox's immediate future. Robin Ventura's hire as the White Sox 39th manager + Ventura's lack of previous big league managerial experience + Ken Williams' talk of patience for Ventura as he grows with the job = White Sox rebuilding for the 2012 season. This equation actually could extend out another level to include the White Sox coming up well short of their 2011 postseason goal, after making an "all-in" financial commitment in the neighborhood of $127 million. But this is baseball, not college trigonometry, so we'll keep it simple. play video White Sox players on 2011 00:01:43 White Sox players reflect on the 2011 campaign and look ahead to 2012 Tags: Chicago White Sox Assuming a rebuild based on Williams' end of season "holding pattern" comments and the inexperience of Ventura is an easy jump to make. The White Sox could go young in 2012, but then be ready to seriously contend again in 2013 with one year in the dugout for Ventura and the team having a better idea as to where it stands overall. But look at the $44 million owed to Adam Dunn over the next three years or the $39.5 million due for Alex Rios in those same three years or Jake Peavy's $21 million still left on his contract. Factor in this trio's sub-par performance in 2011, with Peavy fighting his way back from season-ending 2010 surgery to reattach his lat muscle, and it quickly becomes apparent veteran presences will exist on this next version of the White Sox. Rebuilding might have more to do with the confidence levels of these struggling veterans than having nothing but youth in the lineup. Make no mistake, though, that even with $89 million earmarked for 12 players, a youthful flavor will be featured in the White Sox lineup. Dayan Viciedo, Alejandro De Aza, Tyler Flowers and Addison Reed figure to join second baseman Gordon Beckham and third baseman Brent Morel as prominent 2012 contributors in the under-30 set. Having Ventura in charge could benefit the growth of those inexperienced performers. "My guess would be it probably confirms a little bit that young guys who have been in there will stay in there," said White Sox captain Paul Konerko during a Friday conference call with Chicago reporters. "If you look at the end of last season, we had a lot of young guys on the field in that last month. This move probably confirms those guys stay on the field. "Whether it means older guys we have as pitchers and hitting, does it mean they leave? I don't know about that. They look at it Robin might help out Beckham or Morel, that maybe he can get them over the hump to turn into solid everyday players." Konerko and catcher A.J. Pierzynski find themselves in interesting positions in the midst of this retooling, with the payroll almost certain to drop to some extent. Both organization staples returned via multi-year free agent deals prior to highly productive 2011 seasons and both players have full no-trade veto power. If the White Sox truly decided to make a commitment to youth, would these players look to play elsewhere or be asked to move elsewhere? Pierzynski was asked near the end of the regular season about waiving his no-trade clause, but said he hadn't give it much thought in the context of the whirlwind finish for the team. "Right now, I want to be here and stay here and finish my career here," Pierzynski said. "If they came to me, we'll see. But that's the way I'm looking at it." A USA Today report from earlier this week mentioned Konerko being claimed by the Diamondbacks on waivers near the end of August. Williams had interest in Paul Goldschmidt as part of his list of players in return, and Arizona general manager Kevin Towers quickly declined. In that article, Konerko said that he probably would have left the decision up to his wife if asked, but he would have asked the direction the White Sox were going. During Friday's conference call, Konerko said he would have to listen if he was approached about a potential move in the realm of the retooling process. "You always listen to things on the table," Konerko said. "If Kenny [Williams] or [White Sox chairman] Jerry [Reinsdorf] were to call and say, 'This is what we are doing and the road we are going to go, what do you think,' you listen to it all and make a decision. "It doesn't mean you say yes. The way I look at it is I signed up for three more years at end of last year. When I signed on the contract, my thoughts were, 'I'll finish with the White Sox, good or bad, during the length of the deal.'" When the White Sox won the World Series in 2005, Konerko pointed out the preseason predictions had them third. He added that being tabbed as favorites hasn't done them well over the past few years. There seems to be no problem for Konerko or Pierzynski to be part of a youth-based squad, if there is a clear-cut organizational approach. All they want is for that initial equation above to have a final total of increased victories in the end. "I hope to expect more winning than we did last year," Pierzynski said. "Obviously, you would love to have [Mark] Buehrle back, and still have guys like JP [Juan Pierre], [John] Danks and [Gavin] Floyd and Carlos [Quentin], guys who you know what you are getting when you go to battle. But it's up to the owner, general manager and manager to make moves if they see a way to improve the team." 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RockRaines Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 AJ is definitely on the block this offseason. I mentioned it before. It makes alot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 01:45 PM) AJ is definitely on the block this offseason. I mentioned it before. It makes alot of sense. I bet if AJ goes, then Danks and Floyd are gone too. Do you bring back Ramon Castro to back up Tyler Flowers? I mean at least he'd be able to translate for the non Spanish speaking coaching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 PK would waive his NTC but I doubt very seriously AJ does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (Real @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 02:07 PM) PK would waive his NTC but I doubt very seriously AJ does. I bet it would be the opposite. AJ strikes me as the type that would go insane on a losing team and become a horrible person to be around... worse than normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Actually, if we're going into rebuilding mode, trading PK right now makes a hell of a lot of sense. And if we can find a taker for AJP then trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 02:20 PM) Actually, if we're going into rebuilding mode, trading PK right now makes a hell of a lot of sense. And if we can find a taker for AJP then trade him. I messaged Merkin to see who he thinks could even be interested. I'll post the response if I get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 01:45 PM) AJ is definitely on the block this offseason. I mentioned it before. It makes alot of sense. Flowers has made AJ expendable as the pitchers prefer to pitch to him. Not too many saw that coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 12:37 PM) Flowers has made AJ expendable as the pitchers prefer to pitch to him. Not too many saw that coming. I've seen good things the pitchers have had to say about Flowers but haven't seen that they actually prefer him over AJ . Link ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 02:19 PM) I bet it would be the opposite. AJ strikes me as the type that would go insane on a losing team and become a horrible person to be around... worse than normal. yeah except Im going off past quotes in 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 If they can trade Konerko and Pierzynski in deals that make sense, of course they should do it. This team isn't going to win the next couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 08:01 PM) If they can trade Konerko and Pierzynski in deals that make sense, of course they should do it. This team isn't going to win the next couple years. And maybe longer if we totally dismantle the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I think this is the year to see if Flowers is going to be one of our cornerstones to build around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I still don't see anyone taking AJs contract or the sox paying half of it. For Konerko...listen, but it needs to be a great return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) I'd be stunned if AJ is back. The hiring of Robin signaled the start of rebuilding (and slashing roster salary by a ton!) and loss of Buehrle for sure. AJ is definitely gone. Somebody will take him. Sox will want to free that money. AJ won't want to be on a team that has no chance of competing. I could see dealing Paulie as well. For sure. Hope the Sox have fun with maximum crowds of 20,000 cept for the big games like Yankees/Cubs/Red Sox. The Central Div. crowds should be ridiculously small. Rebuilding is not gonna be fun. Thanks, Sox millionaires for playing so s***ty the last 2 years and turning us back into a small market team. It's not going to be fun. Edited October 10, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I still don't see anyone taking AJs contract or the sox paying half of it. For Konerko...listen, but it needs to be a great return. Exactly. Both very likely to be here next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 02:37 PM) Flowers has made AJ expendable as the pitchers prefer to pitch to him. Not too many saw that coming. Yes, the .209BA .310OBP strikeout machine who is average at best defensively has made AJ expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 10:34 PM) Exactly. Both very likely to be here next year. AJ had a very good year at the plate. Can't throw well at all, but some teams will overlook that. I bet we see him in the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 QUOTE (lord chas @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) I think this is the year to see if Flowers is going to be one of our cornerstones to build around If Flowers is the cornerstone, the building should be condemned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I would not mind dealing A.J. at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) I would not mind dealing A.J. at all. I would do a dance if he was sent packing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 05:25 PM) I still don't see anyone taking AJs contract Agreed. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 05:25 PM) or the sox paying half of it. This I could potentially see. Paying half of it means saving half the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 01:45 PM) AJ is definitely on the block this offseason. I mentioned it before. It makes alot of sense. Agreed. I don't think they will get much in return in terms of players, but they will get some salary relief. If he's due for about $6 million, the Sox may be on the hook for $1-$2 million, but would obviously save on most of that last year. I don't think Tyler Flowers will hit well enough to be an everyday catcher, but I think now is the time to find out. Get him out there for 4-5 days a week and resign Castro for 2-3 days a week of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) I messaged Merkin to see who he thinks could even be interested. I'll post the response if I get one. Anything Merkin says would be a guess. We could look around as a forum and probably come up with an educated answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 05:17 PM) I'd be stunned if AJ is back. The hiring of Robin signaled the start of rebuilding (and slashing roster salary by a ton!) and loss of Buehrle for sure. AJ is definitely gone. Somebody will take him. Sox will want to free that money. AJ won't want to be on a team that has no chance of competing. I could see dealing Paulie as well. For sure. Hope the Sox have fun with maximum crowds of 20,000 cept for the big games like Yankees/Cubs/Red Sox. The Central Div. crowds should be ridiculously small. Rebuilding is not gonna be fun. Thanks, Sox millionaires for playing so s***ty the last 2 years and turning us back into a small market team. It's not going to be fun. I'm not sure what they do with Konerko, but you're right overall. This team has a bad minor league system and a underachieving team witih a bloated payroll. It's fairly obvious with the hiring of Ventura that next year's team is going to undergo a major overhaul with AJ, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Frazior and Quentin all possible trade candidtates, along with Buerhle and Pierre gone. They are going to have to find young talent from elsewhere because they are lacking it from inside their own organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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