Marty34 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 This organization operates best when it's an underdog and Theo coming to town makes them just that. These next couple of years are going to be Theo v. Kenny as Ventura and presumably Sandberg settle into their managerial positions. Hopefully, this challenge will re-focus Williams and we'll see the results on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 It really shouldn't matter what's going on with the Cubs except for 6 games a year. KW and the Sox need to be more concerned about what teams like Detroit, Cleveland, and Minnesota are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Eh? The Sox status as underdogs for fan appeal vs the Cubs has not reversed. Even after the WS win, the Sox made gains, but the Cubs still are on top in following, TV, attendance, national recognition, etc. So they haven't gone back to being underdogs in that sense, at all. Furthermore, while they may become underdogs against what actually matters - the teams in their division and league - that is what KW and Ventura will be focused on. They are not cubsessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 With Ozzie gone the whole organizations focus can be back on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 This thread makes absolutely zero sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I think the thread makes a ton of sense. This will put more pressure on ownership to deliver a more competitive product on the field. 1. Theo coming in with one of the largest contracts ever for a general manager. Rickett is very intrigued by sabermetrics and would imagine Theo has all the ability to make any moves he wants with the club. I bet the rumors of a trimmed down payroll are false. The cubs are in a mess right now, but a general manager with money who knows where to spend( draft picks and internationally) can turn around a franchise in a hurry. I would expect the Cubs to be very good in three years or less. 2. Consequently, the White Sox better get there act together. I know they only compete with the Cubs on the field six games a year. But, financially they compete with the Cubs everyday. They compete with them for memorabilia sales, eyes balls watching the television, ears listening to the radio, and most importantly asses in the seats. To say how well the Cubs do does not effect the White Sox is very narrow minded. 3. So what can they do. They can start investing in high draft picks, and start building more in Latin America. For once, I would like a Top Prospect to become a superstar. The only guy that maybe can do that is Dayan Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 06:19 PM) This thread makes absolutely zero sense. True. One thing is for sure. They better win big cause without Ozzie there are no headlines, no buzz in this city about the White Sox at all. Jerry seems to have no sense of urgency, just telling KW to "think outside the box with no retreads." This might sound dumb, but I'd have taken the Theo/Tito combo on the southside WAY OVER KW/Robin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) It really shouldn't matter what's going on with the Cubs except for 6 games a year. KW and the Sox need to be more concerned about what teams like Detroit, Cleveland, and Minnesota are doing. Couldn't have said it better myself. Who cares what the Cubs are doing? But I'm also worried about the Royals, who IMO will be just as big a threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champs2005 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I think this is a fine topic. The Cubs took back the hot stove spotlight and will probably keep it after Epstein hires Sandberg. We are underdogs. Probably always were, but still after 2005 not so much. Also, I feel like Kenny Williams read then watched Moneyball too many times. It's like he thought, jeez I cant wait til they write my book and Denzel plays me in the movie! Kenny is trying to be too smart for his own good. PK as player manager? OMG so stupid. Why always the need to think outside the box? Trying to be the new Billy Beane. Trying to prove everyone wrong. How about just WINNING for a change? Fans arent coming to see the Sox because we have a "boy wonder" GM who does it differently than everyone else. In a division with managers like Gardy, Smokey Jim and Acta, we got Robin. Wow. Those guys are gonna think rings around him on field next year. Thanks Kenny. It is always about you, it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (kwill @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 01:38 PM) I think the thread makes a ton of sense. This will put more pressure on ownership to deliver a more competitive product on the field. 1. Theo coming in with one of the largest contracts ever for a general manager. Rickett is very intrigued by sabermetrics and would imagine Theo has all the ability to make any moves he wants with the club. I bet the rumors of a trimmed down payroll are false. The cubs are in a mess right now, but a general manager with money who knows where to spend( draft picks and internationally) can turn around a franchise in a hurry. I would expect the Cubs to be very good in three years or less. 2. Consequently, the White Sox better get there act together. I know they only compete with the Cubs on the field six games a year. But, financially they compete with the Cubs everyday. They compete with them for memorabilia sales, eyes balls watching the television, ears listening to the radio, and most importantly asses in the seats. To say how well the Cubs do does not effect the White Sox is very narrow minded. 3. So what can they do. They can start investing in high draft picks, and start building more in Latin America. For once, I would like a Top Prospect to become a superstar. The only guy that maybe can do that is Dayan Viciedo. Good post. A lot of people may not realize it but there are many baseball fans in Chicago that will lean in the direction of the team that is playing better. KW better step up his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 12:16 PM) Eh? The Sox status as underdogs for fan appeal vs the Cubs has not reversed. Even after the WS win, the Sox made gains, but the Cubs still are on top in following, TV, attendance, national recognition, etc. So they haven't gone back to being underdogs in that sense, at all. Furthermore, while they may become underdogs against what actually matters - the teams in their division and league - that is what KW and Ventura will be focused on. They are not cubsessed. I think he was speaking more from an expectations standpoint...despite still playing the second fiddle in town in terms of popularity, there have definitely been higher expectations of the Sox over the course of the last 5-6 years as opposed to the Cub, at least by more than the most casual of fans. Edited October 12, 2011 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) True. One thing is for sure. They better win big cause without Ozzie there are no headlines, no buzz in this city about the White Sox at all. Jerry seems to have no sense of urgency, just telling KW to "think outside the box with no retreads." This might sound dumb, but I'd have taken the Theo/Tito combo on the southside WAY OVER KW/Robin. If you think the headlines of Ozzie acting like an idiot were good for the organization and/or the fan base, then you are so wrong. Maybe it's cause you don't live in Chicago and it's hard for you to understand how the locals feel, but Ozzie's "act" grew old to everyone in the city a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 12:51 PM) If you think the headlines of Ozzie acting like an idiot were good for the organization and/or the fan base, then you are so wrong. Maybe it's cause you don't live in Chicago and it's hard for you to understand how the locals feel, but Ozzie's "act" grew old to everyone in the city a few years ago. It all comes down to this...if you win, the fans enjoy the "personality and colorful commentary of Ozzie." If you lose, fans get tired of the nonsensical bulls*** after a while. This is a theme that repeats itself over and over again throughout history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 06:53 PM) It all comes down to this...if you win, the fans enjoy the "personality and colorful commentary of Ozzie." If you lose, fans get tired of the nonsensical bulls*** after a while. This is a theme that repeats itself over and over again throughout history. True, but baseball teams do this all the time. They go from flamboyant manager to dull. Then after Robin it'll be flamboyant again. I want to give Robin a chance and will, but I think after KW's dealing are over this winter, we'll be lucky to win 65-70 games and that doesn't cut it in Chicago. Not with the Cubs there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 01:51 PM) If you think the headlines of Ozzie acting like an idiot were good for the organization and/or the fan base, then you are so wrong. Maybe it's cause you don't live in Chicago and it's hard for you to understand how the locals feel, but Ozzie's "act" grew old to everyone in the city a few years ago. By that logic, maybe we should have hired OJ for a manager. That dude knows how to get headlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 12:53 PM) This organization operates best when it's an underdog and Theo coming to town makes them just that. These next couple of years are going to be Theo v. Kenny as Ventura and presumably Sandberg settle into their managerial positions. Hopefully, this challenge will re-focus Williams and we'll see the results on the field. Whelp, that didn't take long. The Sox shouldn't pay attention to what the Cubs are doing, unless Theo loses his mind and calls and offers on Dunn or Rios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 the sox aren't going to win anything by trying to be more popular than the cubs. they aren't, and aren't going to be. that battle is over. what they can do is win games and attract casual fans to the park. nothing past that makes much of a difference in terms of boosting their bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (kwill @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 01:38 PM) I think the thread makes a ton of sense. This will put more pressure on ownership to deliver a more competitive product on the field. 1. Theo coming in with one of the largest contracts ever for a general manager. Rickett is very intrigued by sabermetrics and would imagine Theo has all the ability to make any moves he wants with the club. I bet the rumors of a trimmed down payroll are false. The cubs are in a mess right now, but a general manager with money who knows where to spend( draft picks and internationally) can turn around a franchise in a hurry. I would expect the Cubs to be very good in three years or less. 2. Consequently, the White Sox better get there act together. I know they only compete with the Cubs on the field six games a year. But, financially they compete with the Cubs everyday. They compete with them for memorabilia sales, eyes balls watching the television, ears listening to the radio, and most importantly asses in the seats. To say how well the Cubs do does not effect the White Sox is very narrow minded. 3. So what can they do. They can start investing in high draft picks, and start building more in Latin America. For once, I would like a Top Prospect to become a superstar. The only guy that maybe can do that is Dayan Viciedo. Great thoughts. Agree wholeheartedly that the Sox have to get their act together and I think they will. Also agree that a payroll cut seems less likely today than it did before. KW is more on the spot than he ever has been. Let's see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) This franchise has been around for over 100 years. It's not going anywhere. A rebuild isn't going to change anything. Where would the Sox go? There's already too many teams in MLB. Outside of this year, the franchise has been financially successful. Edited October 12, 2011 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 01:43 PM) Good post. A lot of people may not realize it but there are many baseball fans in Chicago that will lean in the direction of the team that is playing better. KW better step up his game. So this is entirely based on the assumption that Theo is a God and automatically instantly makes Soriano and Zambran's contracts go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 If the sox want more attendance, lower the ticket prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think Theo is overrated and the White Sox STILL have the best GM in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 07:03 PM) I think Theo is overrated and the White Sox STILL have the best GM in Chicago. Both of them are trying to restart their own careers after massive, expensive failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 12, 2011 -> 06:54 PM) If the sox want more attendance, lower the ticket prices. Would this actually work and could they make enough revenue to put out a team with a payroll of, say, $100 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Saying the Sox shouldn't worry about the Cubs is like telling Pepsi not to worry about Coke. After the hardcore baseball fans you have the folks that go to a game or two a year. There are lots of them. The club is in a battle to sell tickets, advertising, and TV ratings. Their biggest competitor makes a bold move, advantage competitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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