MLB CBA Thread

[southsider2k5]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/labor-t...g-issues-101711

 

Updated Oct 17, 2011 2:16 PM ET

 

The announcement of the last collective-bargaining agreement before Game 3 of the 2006 World Series set a target for major league players and owners in their current talks:

 

Strike another new deal during the Series, announce it to the widest possible audience, achieve the maximum public-relations benefit.

 

Will it happen? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

The possibility of an agreement occurring during the Series is “a coin flip,” according to one source with knowledge of the discussions.

 

The two sides remain far part on the owners’ desire to institute “hard slotting” — predetermined signing bonuses — for the amateur draft, major league sources say.

 

However, the same sources suggest that the gulf between the sides on that issue could narrow quickly, and enough progress has occurred in other areas for an agreement during the Series to remain within reach.

 

The more meaningful target for a deal — one that both sides are motivated to meet — is the start of free agency five days after the end of the Series.

 

Although the current agreement does not expire until Dec. 11, the players want an agreement before the market opens so that they can realize the benefits of the expected changes in free-agent compensation.

 

The owners’ incentive stems from the disappearance of the luxury tax — an important inhibitor on the spending of high-revenue teams — if a deal is delayed. The current agreement includes no provision for the extension of the tax beyond 2011.

 

“Legally, nothing changes until Dec. 11,” one source said. “But a lot will be lost on both sides if there is no agreement before the end of the World Series. It would create another set of issues — not deal-breakers, but additional issues that would have to be negotiated.”

 

The sales of season tickets and sponsorships also would be enhanced by a swift conclusion to the talks. A deal of three years or longer, following the current five-year agreement, would give the sport more than two decades of uninterrupted labor peace.

 

The new deal is expected to include the addition of a one-game, wild-card round to the postseason in 2013, sources say. The plan is tied to the creation of two 15-team leagues. The NL currently has 16 clubs, the AL 14. That change cannot be implemented before ’13, and the players oppose playing one season with the current alignment but a new qualifying format.

 

One holdup in the creation of two 15-team leagues is the delay in the approval of the Astros’ new owner, Jim Crane. The Astros are the most likely club to move to the AL, but their situation remains “fluid,” one source said.

 

As for the draft, slotting remains the most divisive issue. The new deal could include a provision that will introduce some form of worldwide draft, not immediately, but possibly within a year, one source said.

[Soxfest]

I will never understand how players union has anything to do with draftees who are NOT union members. It is apples and oranges.

[Texsox]

They have control over the teams with the labor contacts that the teams enter into. This allows the teams to hire any player they wish, unlike some other union situations where the person has to be a union member *before* getting hired. This seems like a better situation for the teams.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/10/seli..._medium=twitter

 

In regards to the ongoing negotiations about a new collective bargaining agreement, Selig said talks were "constructive," though it would be "pretty optimistic" to hope that a new deal could be announced before the end of the World Series.

 

The issue of a hard slotting system for the draft is "really critical" for Selig. Buster Olney reported yesterday that Selig was unlikely to "dig in and fight" for slotting since doing so would prolong the labor negotiations.

 

Selig is hopeful that an extra wild card team in each league could be added in time for the 2012 postseason. Selig hears from a number of managers that they would prefer a one-game playoff between each league's wild card teams, rather than a best-of-three playoff.

 

Judging fair and foul balls could become reviewable via instant replay. Besides this change, however, Selig said "there is no appetite anywhere, including mine, for any instant replay" of other plays.

"Never have so many [networks] been interested in acquiring our rights," Selig said in regards about MLB's next TV contracts for the postseason.

 

The commissioner is "concerned" about the low attendance in Tampa Bay. The Rays "are a wonderful organization, produced a terrific team this year and finished last in the American League in attendance. I’ll let you draw your own conclusion. That’s bad." The Rays' quest for a new stadium is not quite a "lost cause," as Russo describes, but Selig said he is "usually an optimist and I don’t have any reason to be too optimistic" about the situation.

[southsider2k5]

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney

Change in the draft system being discussed by MLB GMs in labor talks involves a draft tax -- like a luxury tax, for teams over set amount.

 

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney

Also, there has been talk of additional picks for small revenue teams-- which some club executives perceive to have relatively little value.

 

[Iwritecode]

Reviewing fair and foul balls via instant replay could be tricky. If a ball is called foul and it turns out to be fair where do the baserunners end up? How many bases does the batter get?

 

Although I could see the same thing with home runs. Has a situation ever occurred where a ball was ruled a HR and it was later overturned via instant replay?

[Balta1701]

Reviewing fair and foul balls via instant replay could be tricky. If a ball is called foul and it turns out to be fair where do the baserunners end up? How many bases does the batter get?

 

Although I could see the same thing with home runs. Has a situation ever occurred where a ball was ruled a HR and it was later overturned via instant replay?

Yes, it's happened to a number of players, including Ryan Braun, Ian Kinsler and Jay Bruce. Braun had his wind up as a triple.

[Iwritecode]

Yes, it's happened to a number of players, including Ryan Braun, Ian Kinsler and Jay Bruce. Braun had his wind up as a triple.

 

The Kinsler one wasn't so bad because it wound up being foul. I'm curious how they decided to put Braun on third though.

[jwmann2]

Reviewing fair and foul balls via instant replay could be tricky. If a ball is called foul and it turns out to be fair where do the baserunners end up? How many bases does the batter get?

 

Although I could see the same thing with home runs. Has a situation ever occurred where a ball was ruled a HR and it was later overturned via instant replay?

 

For a league that is so concerned with protecting the history of the game of baseball, they are taking a look at instant replay awfully hard. It's a double standard and should not happen.

[Balta1701]

For a league that is so concerned with protecting the history of the game of baseball, they are taking a look at instant replay awfully hard. It's a double standard and should not happen.

This is also a game where I can remember the name of a fan who interfered with a home run ball 15 years ago because there was no replay.

 

Get the call right.

[southsider2k5]

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman

MLB said willing to drop draft pick compensation tied to free agents if it gets draft slotting. But union remains against slots

 

[bmags]

SLOTS! SLOTS! SLOTS-SLOTS-SLOTS-SLOTS!

 

I wonder if the union would take slots if players would only be under team control for 4 years. Seems reasonable enough to me. The top players out of the draft make too much and are a crap shoot, but the ones that do make it, get underpaid for most of their prime.

[southsider2k5]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/new-maj...-details-103011

 

In the bad old days, the tension was evident, the rhetoric disdainful, the contempt palpable.

 

The owners would try to break the union. The union would dig in against the owners. Work stoppage after work stoppage would commence, and once upon a time, in 1994, the World Series even was canceled.

 

This, by comparison, is nothing.

 

This is a dispute over an issue — slotted bonuses for the amateur draft — that is simply not important enough to either side to take down the entire sport.

 

Thus, a new labor agreement is expected by the time the free-agent market opens at 12:01 a.m. Thursday, enabling certain new rules governing free agency to take effect.

 

All that remains are the final details.

 

The draft, sources say, likely will be modified, not by hard slotting, but by a tax similar to the luxury tax on payrolls, with teams penalized for spending over a certain limit.

 

Draft-pick compensation for free agents also will change, with fewer restrictions on clubs that want to sign certain premier, or Type A, free agents. Some of those restrictions would ease immediately, sources say; other adjustments would take effect in 2012.

 

The bottom line is this: The amateur draft is a relatively minor issue, a roughly $250 million part of a $7 billion industry. Commissioner Bud Selig wants hard slotting, sources say, but not all clubs are as adamant. Some are fine with the current system, and some even are opposed to slotting, sources say.

 

On the players’ side, a superstar such as Derek Jeter might not strike on behalf of high school and college players. The union, however, views slotting as a precursor to a major league salary cap, and it has succeeded over the years in educating players about the broader implications of capping spending on picks.

 

A draft tax, by contrast, is philosophically acceptable to the union, mirroring the luxury tax on payrolls that already is in place. The luxury tax is not an actual cap, but a mechanism to slow down spending, penalizing clubs that exceed a certain payroll threshold.

 

While the effect of the luxury tax is debatable, the tax has helped create nearly two decades of labor peace. A draft tax would amount to a similar compromise, addressing the escalation in draft bonuses that Selig and many clubs view with alarm.

 

The bonuses rose from $195 million in 2010 to $228 million in ’11, according to Baseball America, an increase of 17 percent. Some clubs, however, probably were more willing to spend freely in ’11, knowing changes in the system were likely in the new labor agreement.

 

In any case, the more significant modification in the new agreement — at least from the fans’ perspective — will be the change in draft-pick compensation.

 

The union is concerned that all but the elite Type A free agents — players such as left-hander CC Sabathia and first basemen Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder — are devalued by the current system.

 

Draft-pick compensation was designed to reward teams that lost free agents, not inhibit the movement of such players. But clubs now value draft picks to a greater extent than they did when the system was created, making them less willing to sacrifice picks for certain free agents.

 

While the players who suffered the most harm in recent years were middle-inning relievers who achieved Type A status, sources say that the union also wants to protect certain others in this year’s free-agent class, including designated hitter David Ortiz, who is about to turn 36, and shortstop Jimmy Rollins, who is about to turn 33.

 

One obvious solution is to make the compensation for Type A picks similar to the compensation for Type B picks. Teams that lose such players receive a supplementary choice between the first and second rounds, but the signing teams do not forfeit picks.

 

To receive a pick under the new plan, one source said, a team might be required to make its free agent a qualifying offer — perhaps a set amount, perhaps a certain percentage more than his previous salary. The requirement of such an offer still could hurt a lesser Type A free agent; a team simply might choose to let him walk. But at least then that player would be free without the restriction of draft-pick compensation.

 

Negotiating all this is tricky; the Padres, for example, decided against trading closer Heath Bell before the July 31 non-waiver deadline based on the current rules. They still expect to receive two high picks if they offer Bell arbitration, then lose him as a free agent. The players and owners are aware that other teams made similar personnel decisions, which is why not all of the changes will be implemented immediately.

 

Again, these are all details to be negotiated, if they haven’t been already.

 

The tension between the sides no longer is evident, the rhetoric practically nonexistent.

 

A new agreement is within reach.

[southsider2k5]

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Labor agreement still not close. Talks not scheduled to resume until Monday. #MLB

 

[southsider2k5]

jaysonst Jayson Stark

Nobody seems to have noticed, but MLB's luxury-tax system expired last week & is now part of the labor tug o' war

[DukeNukeEm]

This s*** is getting way too old

[ewokpelts]

i expect a deal to be done by 12/11. both sides are bickering on lesser issues.

[southsider2k5]

 

 

Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein

Exec, also on CBA, mentioned discussion of new Free Agent compensation rules that would involved GREATLY reducing the number of comp picks.

 

Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein

Spoke to exec about the CBA: Rumors involve a tax on teams going over a certain threshold on all amateur signings.

 

[southsider2k5]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7212311/...ard-source-says

 

Negotiations in Major League Baseball's stalled labor talks have taken "a step forward" this week, according to one source familiar with the discussions, and a second source told ESPN.com it's possible a deal could be completed this week.

 

However, another source described the chances of an agreement this week as only about 50-50, saying that the sides had made what appeared to be similar progress in the past, only to get stuck on other issues.

 

Owners and players have been stalled for weeks over management's push for a hard slotting system for amateur draft picks. The players' union has adamantly resisted hard slotting, so the sides have been exploring alternatives based on "luxury taxes" or other incentives designed to keep spending on the draft within more rigid limitations.

 

The other major issue that is still unresolved is a change in compensation for premier free agents. The union is pressing for a new system that would either no longer require teams to give up first-round draft picks as compensation for signing a top free agent, or would like to reduce the number of players who would qualify as "Type A" free agents.

 

Club officials and agents both believe the uncertainty over those changes, and whether they would take effect this winter, has had an impact on the current free-agent market.

 

"It's not that unusual for things to develop slowly," one prominent agent said, "but I think the (labor uncertainty) is definitely having an effect. I think some teams just want to know a deal is in place before they start spending significant money."

[Milkman delivers]

Man, the players' union has way too much power in baseball.

 

One thing I'd love to see is the guaranteed contracts taken away. It'll obviously never happen, though.

[Soxfest]

Man, the players' union has way too much power in baseball.

 

One thing I'd love to see is the guaranteed contracts taken away. It'll obviously never happen, though.

The players union to hold everything up over hard slotting really says the agents are involved bigtime, it really has no effect on current union members.

[southsider2k5]

Man, the players' union has way too much power in baseball.

 

One thing I'd love to see is the guaranteed contracts taken away. It'll obviously never happen, though.

 

There are some days where I wish Bud Selig had a backbone. He doesn't need the consent of the players union to do this.

[Milkman delivers]

There are some days where I wish Bud Selig had a backbone. He doesn't need the consent of the players union to do this.

 

Bud Selig is the worst thing to happen to baseball since the Black Sox Scandal. He's worse than the strike.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[southsider2k5]

Bud Selig is the worst thing to happen to baseball since the Black Sox Scandal. He's worse than the strike.

 

I don't know if I would go that far, but I don't get the praise that he is somehow upon the greatest leaders baseball has ever had. The guy personally whiffed on one of the biggest issues to the integrity of the game in the steroid scandal. If he invokes his "good of the game" powers to institute real drug testing and penalties, we aren't still sitting here today wondering about guys like Jose Bautista, or anyone from the last 25 to 30 years who put up big numbers. His being scared of the big bad players union is going to be something that affects the discussion of players for the rest of the history of baseball. You will never be able to have a conversation about this era, without it going back to cheating, and that sucks. Selig might not have been able to stop it completely, but he could have stopped the bleeding.

[Milkman delivers]

I don't know if I would go that far, but I don't get the praise that he is somehow upon the greatest leaders baseball has ever had. The guy personally whiffed on one of the biggest issues to the integrity of the game in the steroid scandal. If he invokes his "good of the game" powers to institute real drug testing and penalties, we aren't still sitting here today wondering about guys like Jose Bautista, or anyone from the last 25 to 30 years who put up big numbers. His being scared of the big bad players union is going to be something that affects the discussion of players for the rest of the history of baseball. You will never be able to have a conversation about this era, without it going back to cheating, and that sucks. Selig might not have been able to stop it completely, but he could have stopped the bleeding.

 

Selig is the embodiment of letting the inmates run the asylum. And this not only affects the 20 years he's been commissioner, it's going to be incredibly hard for the next guy to right the ship (if he even wants to do so). After two decades or more of letting these guys have their way in almost every imaginable aspect, it's going to be exceedingly difficult to rein things back in.