Sox "expect" Buehrle back

[Heads22]

That article made it sound like Mark's return would screw things up in part because of Humber and Stewart who both reeked the last half.

Mark's return isn't making anything inconvenient IMO.

 

What do you guys think of the two of them?

Are they just average or 2 guys to get excited about?

 

Don't forget how bad Danks was his rookie season. Sometimes, guys just need to get the innings and learn about pitching.

 

Both have rotation potential. Humber was once considered a top prospect in baseball.

[southsider2k5]

Don't forget how bad Danks was his rookie season. Sometimes, guys just need to get the innings and learn about pitching.

 

Both have rotation potential. Humber was once considered a top prospect in baseball.

 

Good point.

 

It was talked about during the season, but Humber's historical IP were no where near where they needed to be to sustain a seasons worth of pitching at the ML level. I don't think it was a big surprise that he was slowing down as he was hitting the career high inning thresholds.

 

As a matter of a fact, we should be planning on seeing it from Sale next year, if he indeed is in the rotation. Heck we saw the same thing in scale in the last two years with Santos.

 

It would also make sense for Humber's IP bar to get raised again into the 190 IPish range.

 

It is akin to being the best sprinter in the world, and then being asked to go out and run the marathon. It is a different race, and if you aren't in condition for it, you aren't going to finish well.

[Eminor3rd]

This is the exact opposite of what I wrote. The Advanced metrics think 2 guys with fewer innings pitched and ERA's nearly a run higher were just about as valuable as Mark!. The advanced metrics hate him.

 

Oh, I thought you meant they all sucked.

 

Regardless, my initial point was that Elias doesn't use advanced metrics, so Elias hating Mark doesn't necessarily mean that advanced metrics hate him. K rate is a proponent of both though, yeah.

[elrockinMT]

lol

 

 

lol? I prefer to think of it as not seeing gloom and doom in everything and overreacting to peoples negativity, which abounds here quite often

[Texsox]

I'm seeing Marks' next contract in the $20 range. That would be a hometown discount *and* a more than the club would have offered to an equivelent player not named Mark Buerhle. Kind of a meeting in the middle.

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

2 things

 

1) I hope Buehrle is back.

2) I do not like modern nicknames.

 

Why's that? Not original enough for you, W-Fan?

[Milkman delivers]

I can see the possibility of a pitcher being traded. I am not sold on considering Quentin and Floyd/Danks as overkill on the roster as the esteemed Balta has posted. I also do not believe that Stewart is ready and what he did with pitching that one-hit masterpeice is just tease us. He was not that good otherwise. He needs time. Fans are to quick to annoint someone like Viciedo, Stewart, Axelrod, et al, the new starter at their respective positions based on a very small sample size. I remind you that as good as we all want to believe Viciedo is or can be he hit only one homer and drove in five runs in his time with the Sox. Many thought he woud power us to the top in no time at all in 2011. I would hope we keep our best performers and not rely on Rios for example of count on Jake Peavy to rebound and be the Cy Young winner he once was. I am not convinved that trading our better players, or our strength if you will, for someone elses possible prospects is going to do it for us. Possibly signing some mid level or role players that are free agents might make more sense. Of course the argument will be that we don't have the money. I just don't buy into the argument that we need wholesale change. Seems that if we do that it is a more a panic move or knee jerk reaction to one bad season for a number of players. I prefer to keep our own better players instead of trading them of and starting over again.

 

Intentionally ignorant and obtuse statements like that make me absolutely fume.

[Milkman delivers]

Stewart needs to start the season at AAA. He's never had a full season above AA and only had about 6 AAA innings before we called him up.

 

He's raw, and not unexpectedly so, since he was only recently converted from relieving to starting by the Blue Jays. He's a good candidate to be the "6th starter" next year, the guy we stash at AAA as a starter to use if Peavy gets hurt or to give Sale some time off in late July when the innings load comes back to hurt him.

 

He has a better set of offspeed stuff than I expected but he doesn't have good control on it yet, that means sometimes he has games like the one against the Twins where he's locating it, and some days he gets shelled because no one swings at anything other than his fastball.

 

I wasn't really impressed with the sink on his 2 seamer just yet either. I'd really like to see that ball become "Heavier" in the forcing ground balls sense.

 

Altogether though, the stuff is possibly there long term but needs some improvement.

 

Philip Humber...I'm genuinely excited about. He might pull a 2004 Loaiza on me, but this is a classic Coop Fixed him case. Suddenly goes from having no confidence in his stuff to throwing strikes, making people look silly, and winning ballgames. His 2nd half was entirely predictable and any manager who wasn't drunk off his tail for the first half could have seen his problem...he never threw more than 140 innings and wasn't stretched out at all, so he'd get past 4-5 innings and his arm would tire out. Then, later in the season, he was genuinely tired until the Sox gave him a rest, then he came back and threw some solid games afterwards.

 

Intelligent use of Humber and realizing where he could/coudln't have been pushed would have made his season look a lot better. But otherwise, there's reason to be excited about him especially since we pushed him to 163 big league innings this year.

 

Let's also not forget that Humber came back in September (after finally being used more sparsely in August due to throwing more innings than he was accustomed to) with a very respectable 4.26 ERA. But he didn't pitch for the 2005 club, so some posters will continue to tear him down.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[Milkman delivers]

I'm seeing Marks' next contract in the $20 range. That would be a hometown discount *and* a more than the club would have offered to an equivelent player not named Mark Buerhle. Kind of a meeting in the middle.

 

That's about where I'd see it, too.

[Heads22]

Twenty over two years or twenty a year? The latter wouldn't make sense. I envision him getting about 12 a year.

 

I want to see Stewart get a shot. I apparently only saw him when he didn't suck, though.

[Balta1701]

Twenty over two years or twenty a year? The latter wouldn't make sense. I envision him getting about 12 a year.

 

I want to see Stewart get a shot. I apparently only saw him when he didn't suck, though.

Seriously, he needs to be at AAA to start the year. I like him...but Charlotte is the best place for him in April.

[Milkman delivers]

Twenty over two years or twenty a year? The latter wouldn't make sense. I envision him getting about 12 a year.

 

I want to see Stewart get a shot. I apparently only saw him when he didn't suck, though.

 

You can't be serious about that question.

[gosox41]

If this is true, then I don't expect a full blown rebuild.

 

Man honestly, who knows that the hell the Sox are going to do. KW might not be done surprising us just yet.

 

 

Let's hope thet are good surprises.

 

Does this team have a direction. I love Buehrle, but outsie of bringing him back for really cheap there is no good baseball reason to do so...unless the are going for it again.

 

Bob

[gosox41]

Stewart needs to start the season at AAA. He's never had a full season above AA and only had about 6 AAA innings before we called him up.

 

He's raw, and not unexpectedly so, since he was only recently converted from relieving to starting by the Blue Jays. He's a good candidate to be the "6th starter" next year, the guy we stash at AAA as a starter to use if Peavy gets hurt or to give Sale some time off in late July when the innings load comes back to hurt him.

 

He has a better set of offspeed stuff than I expected but he doesn't have good control on it yet, that means sometimes he has games like the one against the Twins where he's locating it, and some days he gets shelled because no one swings at anything other than his fastball.

 

I wasn't really impressed with the sink on his 2 seamer just yet either. I'd really like to see that ball become "Heavier" in the forcing ground balls sense.

 

Altogether though, the stuff is possibly there long term but needs some improvement.

 

Philip Humber...I'm genuinely excited about. He might pull a 2004 Loaiza on me, but this is a classic Coop Fixed him case. Suddenly goes from having no confidence in his stuff to throwing strikes, making people look silly, and winning ballgames. His 2nd half was entirely predictable and any manager who wasn't drunk off his tail for the first half could have seen his problem...he never threw more than 140 innings and wasn't stretched out at all, so he'd get past 4-5 innings and his arm would tire out. Then, later in the season, he was genuinely tired until the Sox gave him a rest, then he came back and threw some solid games afterwards.

 

Intelligent use of Humber and realizing where he could/coudln't have been pushed would have made his season look a lot better. But otherwise, there's reason to be excited about him especially since we pushed him to 163 big league innings this year.

 

 

Where have I seen this before...The Sox taking a young player who needs more time to develop in the minors and rush him to the big leagues where we are forced to watch yet another player with hype not reach their full potential, frustrating the team, fans, and himself.

 

Are we rebuilding here or what?

 

 

Bob

[Heads22]

You can't be serious about that question.

 

I figured it was twenty total but I'm not too sure about what people think these days.

[Texsox]

The only reason for Buerhle to go less than $10 is for a three year deal. I also would be surprised if there wasn't some sort of option for a third year.

[Balta1701]

The only reason for Buerhle to go less than $10 is for a three year deal. I also would be surprised if there wasn't some sort of option for a third year.

Really what I want to see is the Sox offer him what Wakefield has except at $12 mil.

[RockRaines]

The only reason for Buerhle to go less than $10 is for a three year deal. I also would be surprised if there wasn't some sort of option for a third year.

Yup. The two year deal stuff seems like kind of a guess from the reporter.

[LVSoxFan]

I'm entirely in agreement with this statement.

 

Me too.

[Heads22]

Haha, I should stay away from PHT when I drink.

 

I'd think a discount from market value for Mark would be around 12 per. I think if he really wanted to play hardball, he could get 14 from one of the big market teams.

[Chicago White Sox]

Haha, I should stay away from PHT when I drink.

 

I'd think a discount from market value for Mark would be around 12 per. I think if he really wanted to play hardball, he could get 14 from one of the big market teams.

I agree, I think a 3 year/$37.5 million offer would be fair and one he might accept.