Sox "expect" Buehrle back

[NorthSideSox72]

I knew he'd be back, though I have to question why. If he's down to play things out on a bad roster, I'm down to watch him do so.

Call me crazy, but I am not convinced we'll have a "bad roster" in 2012. If the team trades Danks/Floyd, Quentin and Thornton... you already have replacements in Sale, Viciedo and Santiago, who are likely to at least be in the vicinity of who they are replacing performance-wise. And that's not even considering what the Sox will get back in trade for them. That also leaves enough money, probably, to re-sign MB.

 

And look at the lineup for a moment here. One guy performed at or above what you'd expect in a typical year (PK). The rest, not so much. Ramirez was close to his averages, AJP not too far off, the rest... bad years. How likely is it that such a high percentage will blow chunks again in 2012?

 

A rotation of say: Floyd/Danks, Buehrle, Sale, Peavy and Humber (with Axelrod in the wings) doesn't look horrible to me (though I must admit, I tend to think Peavy has a good year in 2012, because that is how these things typically go). And the bullpen, while experiencing a drop-off from Thornton to Santiago, also picks up Reed and looks decent.

 

The Central is going to be tough next year, but I also think the Sox are likely to be better too, assuming their general plan is what I outlined above.

 

[Steve9347]

Call me crazy...

 

The Central is going to be tough next year, but I also think the Sox are likely to be better too, assuming their general plan is what I outlined above.

You are crazy.

 

If you think the team can just easily replace the productivity of Danks, Floyd, Quentin etc with in-house guys (you name Sale, Santiago, Viciedo), you are crazy. Those three players, albeit not superstars, are quite productive. I'd be shocked if Sale and Santiago matched 75% of the innings tossed by Danks and Floyd. As for Viciedo, the jury is still very much out on him.

 

The team needs to not think about contending if it really wants to contend any time soon.

[balfanman]

Call me crazy, but I am not convinced we'll have a "bad roster" in 2012. If the team trades Danks/Floyd, Quentin and Thornton... you already have replacements in Sale, Viciedo and Santiago, who are likely to at least be in the vicinity of who they are replacing performance-wise. And that's not even considering what the Sox will get back in trade for them. That also leaves enough money, probably, to re-sign MB.

 

And look at the lineup for a moment here. One guy performed at or above what you'd expect in a typical year (PK). The rest, not so much. Ramirez was close to his averages, AJP not too far off, the rest... bad years. How likely is it that such a high percentage will blow chunks again in 2012?

 

A rotation of say: Floyd/Danks, Buehrle, Sale, Peavy and Humber (with Axelrod in the wings) doesn't look horrible to me (though I must admit, I tend to think Peavy has a good year in 2012, because that is how these things typically go). And the bullpen, while experiencing a drop-off from Thornton to Santiago, also picks up Reed and looks decent.

 

The Central is going to be tough next year, but I also think the Sox are likely to be better too, assuming their general plan is what I outlined above.

 

I agree with you. Even if the Sox were to come back with the exact same roster (I know they won't), the odds of having that terrible of a season from most of them have to be pretty slim.

 

I think the biggest factor will be the absence of Ozzie. Love him or hate him, the players for the most part were tired of all the drama and had quite obviously tuned him out. Whether Ventura is the right man to turn things around totally or not, (for the record I think that he's a great choice)at least he provides a different voice of leadership and the players are almost sure to be refreshed by his presence.

[Balta1701]

You are crazy.

 

If you think the team can just easily replace the productivity of Danks, Floyd, Quentin etc with in-house guys (you name Sale, Santiago, Viciedo), you are crazy. Those three players, albeit not superstars, are quite productive. I'd be shocked if Sale and Santiago matched 75% of the innings tossed by Danks and Floyd. As for Viciedo, the jury is still very much out on him.

 

The team needs to not think about contending if it really wants to contend any time soon.

Let's be honest though...the guys you mentioned simply weren't great last year. G put up a 4.37 ERA, John Danks a 4.32. Quentin missed a month again, and was still only a low .800's OPS bat most of the year.

 

You can't replace all 3 of them, but 2 of those 3 going can still be covered...if things go right. And if things go wrong...having them wouldn't matter anyway.

[Eminor3rd]

It's the classic "The advanced metrics hate M-56 because he doesn't strike enough people out" game.

 

I'm pretty sure Elias doesn't use any 'advanced metrics.' In fact, WAR likes Buerhle more than anything else because he's such an innings horse.

[Balta1701]

I'm pretty sure Elias doesn't use any 'advanced metrics.' In fact, WAR likes Buerhle more than anything else because he's such an innings horse.

Fangraphs had Buehrle at 3.4 WAR last year, Danks at 3.2, and Floyd at 3.6. If you believe those numbers actually truly reflect their relative performance on the mound last year, I have a bridge to sell you.

[southsider2k5]

I agree with you. Even if the Sox were to come back with the exact same roster (I know they won't), the odds of having that terrible of a season from most of them have to be pretty slim.

 

I think the biggest factor will be the absence of Ozzie. Love him or hate him, the players for the most part were tired of all the drama and had quite obviously tuned him out. Whether Ventura is the right man to turn things around totally or not, (for the record I think that he's a great choice)at least he provides a different voice of leadership and the players are almost sure to be refreshed by his presence.

 

I really get the feeling this will be true for a couple of players. Let me just say we will know a lot more about the Ozzie era by seeing how Gordon Beckham and Adam Dunn play next year.

[witesoxfan]

2 things

 

1) I hope Buehrle is back.

2) I do not like modern nicknames.

[Steve9347]

2 things

 

1) I hope Buehrle is back.

2) I do not like modern nicknames.

1) yes

2) yessir

 

I simply stick with "MARK!" for Buehrle.

[southsider2k5]

1) yes

2) yessir

 

I simply stick with "MARK!" for Buehrle.

 

If anyone in this organization deserves a cool nickname it is Mark Buehrle. I consider this to be Hawks biggest failing of this millennium.

[Texsox]

If anyone in this organization deserves a cool nickname it is Mark Buehrle. I consider this to be Hawks biggest failing of this millennium.

 

 

Easily my favorite player on the current roster.

[Texsox]

If anyone in this organization deserves a cool nickname it is Mark Buehrle. I consider this to be Hawks biggest failing of this millennium.

 

 

ACE?

[Eminor3rd]

Fangraphs had Buehrle at 3.4 WAR last year, Danks at 3.2, and Floyd at 3.6. If you believe those numbers actually truly reflect their relative performance on the mound last year, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Exactly my point. Advanced metrics love him, classic metrics (like those used by Elias) don't love him, hence type B.

[Soxfest]

Only way I want MB back is on the cheap 6 to 8 mil..........12 to 14 mil a year for him is way too much.

[elrockinMT]

3. Quentin and Danks/Floyd.

 

 

I can see the possibility of a pitcher being traded. I am not sold on considering Quentin and Floyd/Danks as overkill on the roster as the esteemed Balta has posted. I also do not believe that Stewart is ready and what he did with pitching that one-hit masterpeice is just tease us. He was not that good otherwise. He needs time. Fans are to quick to annoint someone like Viciedo, Stewart, Axelrod, et al, the new starter at their respective positions based on a very small sample size. I remind you that as good as we all want to believe Viciedo is or can be he hit only one homer and drove in five runs in his time with the Sox. Many thought he woud power us to the top in no time at all in 2011. I would hope we keep our best performers and not rely on Rios for example of count on Jake Peavy to rebound and be the Cy Young winner he once was. I am not convinved that trading our better players, or our strength if you will, for someone elses possible prospects is going to do it for us. Possibly signing some mid level or role players that are free agents might make more sense. Of course the argument will be that we don't have the money. I just don't buy into the argument that we need wholesale change. Seems that if we do that it is a more a panic move or knee jerk reaction to one bad season for a number of players. I prefer to keep our own better players instead of trading them of and starting over again.

[RockRaines]

Can we consolidate these threads into "Rumors written by the media taken directly off of Soxtalk"

 

Yes Buehrle is in their plans, it was mentioned WEEKS ago. Yes they are looking to trade Q, Thornton, Danks and maybe Floyd. Duh.

[elrockinMT]

If anyone in this organization deserves a cool nickname it is Mark Buehrle. I consider this to be Hawks biggest failing of this millennium.

 

Mark Buerhle says it all

[Jordan4life_2007]

I can see the possibility of a pitcher being traded. I am not sold on considering Quentin and Floyd/Danks as overkill on the roster as the esteemed Balta has posted. I also do not believe that Stewart is ready and what he did with pitching that one-hit masterpeice is just tease us. He was not that good otherwise. He needs time. Fans are to quick to annoint someone like Viciedo, Stewart, Axelrod, et al, the new starter at their respective positions based on a very small sample size. I remind you that as good as we all want to believe Viciedo is or can be he hit only one homer and drove in five runs in his time with the Sox. Many thought he woud power us to the top in no time at all in 2011. I would hope we keep our best performers and not rely on Rios for example of count on Jake Peavy to rebound and be the Cy Young winner he once was. I am not convinved that trading our better players, or our strength if you will, for someone elses possible prospects is going to do it for us. Possibly signing some mid level or role players that are free agents might make more sense. Of course the argument will be that we don't have the money. I just don't buy into the argument that we need wholesale change. Seems that if we do that it is a more a panic move or knee jerk reaction to one bad season for a number of players. I prefer to keep our own better players instead of trading them of and starting over again.

 

lol

 

[southsider2k5]

Can we consolidate these threads into "Rumors written by the media taken directly off of Soxtalk"

 

Yes Buehrle is in their plans, it was mentioned WEEKS ago. Yes they are looking to trade Q, Thornton, Danks and maybe Floyd. Duh.

 

[/thread police]

[RockRaines]

[/thread police]

Ass.

 

Just saying. I know the media comes here as this is a great place to gather information on the minor leagues and the big club, and also on rumors that tend to have legs. But jeez, every rumor posting having to do with offseason moves seems to have come straight from here, either that or its the same sources (could be true)

[southsider2k5]

Ass.

 

Just saying. I know the media comes here as this is a great place to gather information on the minor leagues and the big club, and also on rumors that tend to have legs. But jeez, every rumor posting having to do with offseason moves seems to have come straight from here, either that or its the same sources (could be true)

 

 

I get it, I really do. The problem is we'd have like two threads in a month if we waited for actual news to happen. Especially without the Guillens around to leak everything.

[Balta1701]

Exactly my point. Advanced metrics love him, classic metrics (like those used by Elias) don't love him, hence type B.

This is the exact opposite of what I wrote. The Advanced metrics think 2 guys with fewer innings pitched and ERA's nearly a run higher were just about as valuable as Mark!. The advanced metrics hate him.

[greg775]

That article made it sound like Mark's return would screw things up in part because of Humber and Stewart who both reeked the last half.

Mark's return isn't making anything inconvenient IMO.

 

What do you guys think of the two of them?

Are they just average or 2 guys to get excited about?

[Balta1701]

That article made it sound like Mark's return would screw things up in part because of Humber and Stewart who both reeked the last half.

Mark's return isn't making anything inconvenient IMO.

 

What do you guys think of the two of them?

Are they just average or 2 guys to get excited about?

Stewart needs to start the season at AAA. He's never had a full season above AA and only had about 6 AAA innings before we called him up.

 

He's raw, and not unexpectedly so, since he was only recently converted from relieving to starting by the Blue Jays. He's a good candidate to be the "6th starter" next year, the guy we stash at AAA as a starter to use if Peavy gets hurt or to give Sale some time off in late July when the innings load comes back to hurt him.

 

He has a better set of offspeed stuff than I expected but he doesn't have good control on it yet, that means sometimes he has games like the one against the Twins where he's locating it, and some days he gets shelled because no one swings at anything other than his fastball.

 

I wasn't really impressed with the sink on his 2 seamer just yet either. I'd really like to see that ball become "Heavier" in the forcing ground balls sense.

 

Altogether though, the stuff is possibly there long term but needs some improvement.

 

Philip Humber...I'm genuinely excited about. He might pull a 2004 Loaiza on me, but this is a classic Coop Fixed him case. Suddenly goes from having no confidence in his stuff to throwing strikes, making people look silly, and winning ballgames. His 2nd half was entirely predictable and any manager who wasn't drunk off his tail for the first half could have seen his problem...he never threw more than 140 innings and wasn't stretched out at all, so he'd get past 4-5 innings and his arm would tire out. Then, later in the season, he was genuinely tired until the Sox gave him a rest, then he came back and threw some solid games afterwards.

 

Intelligent use of Humber and realizing where he could/coudln't have been pushed would have made his season look a lot better. But otherwise, there's reason to be excited about him especially since we pushed him to 163 big league innings this year.

[greg775]

Stewart needs to start the season at AAA. He's never had a full season above AA and only had about 6 AAA innings before we called him up.

 

He's raw, and not unexpectedly so, since he was only recently converted from relieving to starting by the Blue Jays. He's a good candidate to be the "6th starter" next year, the guy we stash at AAA as a starter to use if Peavy gets hurt or to give Sale some time off in late July when the innings load comes back to hurt him.

 

He has a better set of offspeed stuff than I expected but he doesn't have good control on it yet, that means sometimes he has games like the one against the Twins where he's locating it, and some days he gets shelled because no one swings at anything other than his fastball.

 

I wasn't really impressed with the sink on his 2 seamer just yet either. I'd really like to see that ball become "Heavier" in the forcing ground balls sense.

 

Altogether though, the stuff is possibly there long term but needs some improvement.

 

Philip Humber...I'm genuinely excited about. He might pull a 2004 Loaiza on me, but this is a classic Coop Fixed him case. Suddenly goes from having no confidence in his stuff to throwing strikes, making people look silly, and winning ballgames. His 2nd half was entirely predictable and any manager who wasn't drunk off his tail for the first half could have seen his problem...he never threw more than 140 innings and wasn't stretched out at all, so he'd get past 4-5 innings and his arm would tire out. Then, later in the season, he was genuinely tired until the Sox gave him a rest, then he came back and threw some solid games afterwards.

 

Intelligent use of Humber and realizing where he could/coudln't have been pushed would have made his season look a lot better. But otherwise, there's reason to be excited about him especially since we pushed him to 163 big league innings this year.

 

Sounds good to me.