Texsox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 06:19 PM) Don Cooper disagrees. And all of baseball agrees. The only interview request we know about was for a pitching coach job. Plus Coop is a slightly different case in that he has distinguished himself while waiting. I am thinking more along the lines of a candidate whose top one or two reason to be hired is because they "paid their dues". Coop would be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 10:11 AM) And all of baseball agrees. The only interview request we know about was for a pitching coach job. Plus Coop is a slightly different case in that he has distinguished himself while waiting. I am thinking more along the lines of a candidate whose top one or two reason to be hired is because they "paid their dues". Coop would be different. So you'd have no problem with a guy who read took a few history classes teaching your classes, without say any student teaching or education classes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 10:17 AM) So you'd have no problem with a guy who read took a few history classes teaching your classes, without say any student teaching or education classes? No, what I am saying is it may not be the best hire if the top reason is "well he's been around forever, we ought to give him a try" or "he's been passed over six times, maybe we owe him this chance". As compared to Cooper who has experience *and* plenty of other reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 11:26 AM) No, what I am saying is it may not be the best hire if the top reason is "well he's been around forever, we ought to give him a try" or "he's been passed over six times, maybe we owe him this chance". And no one anywhere has said that about any of the candidates who were passed over. No one has even remotely hinted at that. Everyone has focused on the fact that they were likely better prepared for the job. No one has suggested that a guy is owed a shot because of being passed over...they've suggested that they were owed a shot at least at an interview because they clearly appeared ready for the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan-kwman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 02:05 PM) he can be activated to replace dunn when dunn retires in june I am not entirely joking No joke, unless Dunn is comeback player of the year like he told Hawk. Really I think he can help Dunn between the ears. I think Thome can help our team be more selective. Thome has a great eye and that would be an asset. Also, his personality is infectious and he would be proactive with the hitters. JT was like that as a player, and surely he would be like that as a hitting coach. He would keep guys like Quentin, Rios, & Dunn to relax more up at the plate, and help them come up with better hitting thoughts and philosophy. Unlike Big Frank, no ego. Edited October 19, 2011 by soxfan-kwman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Noooooooooooooo! Are you kidding me? Make it Frank Thomas if you want the sentimental favorite. How the hell do you make a one-dimensional hitter your hitting coach? Jesus even Baines would be a better idea than this. Edited October 19, 2011 by LVSoxFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Just curious. How would the Cleve fans react to him signing as a coach on the White Sox and not on the Cleves. Thome made up good will with them last season and that could disappear right away. That actually would amuse me. They gave him a statue...lol! Thome would be helping the White Sox batter crush Cleves pitching. lol! Thome goes to the HOF wearing a Cleves cap. But using this logic, Thome probably isn't going to be a hitting coach for the White Sox. You never know but I don't think this is going to happen. Maybe hitting coach for the Cleves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) Just curious. How would the Cleve fans react to him signing as a coach on the White Sox and not on the Cleves. Thome made up good will with them last season and that could disappear right away. That actually would amuse me. They gave him a statue...lol! Thome would be helping the White Sox batter crush Cleves pitching. lol! Thome goes to the HOF wearing a Cleves cap. But using this logic, Thome probably isn't going to be a hitting coach for the White Sox. You never know but I don't think this is going to happen. Maybe hitting coach for the Cleves. How would I react if Frank signed on as hitting coach for the A's? Well, if they wanted him and he was happy, he could go for that and I wouldn't be all that angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) How would I react if Frank signed on as hitting coach for the A's? Well, if they wanted him and he was happy, he could go for that and I wouldn't be all that angry. I agree with that if this was about Frank Thomas. However, if Thomas signed up with an AL Central rival like the Twins..I would be po'd at White Sox management for not signing him. lol! But trust me Cleve fans wouldn't like it if Thome signed up as White Sox hitting coach. lol! Especially with a team in the same division. Edited October 19, 2011 by sunofgold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) I agree with that if this was about Frank Thomas. However, if Thomas signed up with an AL Central rival like the Twins..I would be po'd at White Sox management for not signing him. lol! But trust me Cleve fans wouldn't like it if Thome signed up as White Sox hitting coach. lol! Especially with a team in the same division. Eh, I'm not one of the ones who thinks a hitting coach has some incredible power over his players...so if Frank were to be a hittting coach for another team in this division, the only thing that would bother me is having to see him in their uniform. Cleveland of course has already seen that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 18, 2011 -> 01:04 PM) You and I never agree on anything in baseball do we? I think the experience one impacts a manager's job a lot more than a hitting coach's job because the manager is much more about dealing with personalities than the hitting coach's job. Both the manager and the hitting coach have a technical side (actual moves, actual mechanics), but a manager has to massage egoes and deal with crises in a way I don't think a hitting coach must do. My opinion is that Ventura has been learning to massage egos and dealing with crises his entire major league career. We've heard multiple people speak to the fact that Robin is very good in the clubhouse and not afraid to manage personalities. Any time you've got a team, there are people who enjoy staying out of the limelight, there are those who are outstanding at their jobs, but would never get in anyone else's business, and then there are those that make it a priority for themselves to be leaders. One doesn't necessarily have to have the title of leader, or even necessarily be the best at what they do, they just have to have the ability to the courage to stand up and change the course of the team when such a change is necessary. We're seeing this with this entire Red Sox debacle. Players like Lester and Beckett are saying they needed veteran leadership like Doug Mirabelli and Mike Timlin to keep everyone on their toes. Seems that Ventura has been getting on OTJ for this sort of leadership for his entire career. As for a hitting coach, that seems to me much more technical. He's going to have to learn to look at other's swings and learn how to diagnose the flaws. Then he's going to have to learn how to fix them. He's been working on his own swing for his entire life. Now he has to learn how to work with all kinds of swings, and how to fix the problems. And not only how to fix the problems, but how to get other players to fix the problems. I dunno, it just seems like a manager spends much of his entire career learning to be a manager, whereas a hitting coach has to learn how to do that sort of technical analysis after his career is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 12:22 PM) My opinion is that Ventura has been learning to massage egos and dealing with crises his entire major league career. We've heard multiple people speak to the fact that Robin is very good in the clubhouse and not afraid to manage personalities. Any time you've got a team, there are people who enjoy staying out of the limelight, there are those who are outstanding at their jobs, but would never get in anyone else's business, and then there are those that make it a priority for themselves to be leaders. One doesn't necessarily have to have the title of leader, or even necessarily be the best at what they do, they just have to have the ability to the courage to stand up and change the course of the team when such a change is necessary. We're seeing this with this entire Red Sox debacle. Players like Lester and Beckett are saying they needed veteran leadership like Doug Mirabelli and Mike Timlin to keep everyone on their toes. Seems that Ventura has been getting on OTJ for this sort of leadership for his entire career. As for a hitting coach, that seems to me much more technical. He's going to have to learn to look at other's swings and learn how to diagnose the flaws. Then he's going to have to learn how to fix them. He's been working on his own swing for his entire life. Now he has to learn how to work with all kinds of swings, and how to fix the problems. And not only how to fix the problems, but how to get other players to fix the problems. I dunno, it just seems like a manager spends much of his entire career learning to be a manager, whereas a hitting coach has to learn how to do that sort of technical analysis after his career is over. I wonder if Cal Ripken Jr. would be a good hitting coach. He had a couple dozen different batting stances in his career....I think he faired pretty well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 There are still different types of hitting coaches. Those that make you learn their "system" and those that try to tweak players existing swings and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 10:27 AM) And no one anywhere has said that about any of the candidates who were passed over. No one has even remotely hinted at that. Everyone has focused on the fact that they were likely better prepared for the job. No one has suggested that a guy is owed a shot because of being passed over...they've suggested that they were owed a shot at least at an interview because they clearly appeared ready for the position. Again, not even what I said or replied to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 It's probably already been written in this thread, but I believe a move to hire Thome would be, more than anything else, an attempt to fix our (very) "poor man's Thome", Adam Dunn. That said, I love the Gentleman, and wouldn't mind seeing him back in the org. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 01:05 PM) It's probably already been written in this thread, but I believe a move to hire Thome would be, more than anything else, an attempt to fix our (very) "poor man's Thome", Adam Dunn. That said, I love the Gentleman, and wouldn't mind seeing him back in the org. No doubt in my mind that Thome will be coaching somewhere within 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 02:07 PM) No doubt in my mind that Thome will be coaching somewhere within 5 years. This is a guy who didn't want to be traded out of the Midwest to be too far from his family, are we sure he'd want to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) This is a guy who didn't want to be traded out of the Midwest to be too far from his family, are we sure he'd want to? I believe that had to do with his ailing father right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) No doubt in my mind that Thome will be coaching somewhere within 5 years. Hell, I would be perfectly happy to see him take over for Laker or Manto in the minors, either as a hitting coordinator, or AAA hitting coach. That way the guy gets his experience, and we find out if he can be good at the job or not. Then if he is good, bring him on board in some capacity in a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 01:05 PM) It's probably already been written in this thread, but I believe a move to hire Thome would be, more than anything else, an attempt to fix our (very) "poor man's Thome", Adam Dunn. That said, I love the Gentleman, and wouldn't mind seeing him back in the org. Its hard to call Dunn "poor" in any sense of the word... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) Its hard to call Dunn "poor" in any sense of the word... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) Its hard to call Dunn "poor" in any sense of the word... In this country he's certainly not rich. #Occupywallstreet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 03:59 PM) In this country he's certainly not rich. #Occupywallstreet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2011 -> 08:35 AM) But can't you see that there's a difference between the levels "Actually been a manager before"..."Actively worked under a manager and prepared for the next step" and "no managerial activity or preparation whatsoever". I can tolerate the latter for a technique coach...but the actual manager's spot it might be nice to at least be at the middle level. I understand that you want some sort of coaching experience at this level, but let's not act like he's never seen any of this before. He's going to have a bit of a feel for it right away, but there are going to be things that really make us question what's going on. I believe somewhere around 90-95% of managing can be done having never done anything in the major leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 20, 2011 -> 03:40 PM) I understand that you want some sort of coaching experience at this level, but let's not act like he's never seen any of this before. He's going to have a bit of a feel for it right away, but there are going to be things that really make us question what's going on. I believe somewhere around 90-95% of managing can be done having never done anything in the major leagues. You're probably right that a majority of managing "Can" be done without ever having been a manager or even bench coach anywhere. The issue is...it clearly is much more likely that a person does those things effectively after other managing experience. Basically, picking a guy with no experience is to me taking the 1 in 100 bet, when maybe 1 in 2 bets were available. The only reason why you'd do the former is if the payout is much, much larger on the former bet...and it's not only hard for me to see how Robin is guaranteed to be a "much larger payout", it's impossible for me to say how you judge that without even interviewing the other guys (and seeing what their odds are). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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