southsider2k5 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 09:57 AM) Axelrod, come on. He'll be 27 next year and is nothing more than bullpen filler on a contending team. How many other minor league systems would even give mention of a guy like Axelrod? With the numbers he put up, and the speed he moved through the organization? He'd get some mentions. No, he isn't going to set the BA crowd aflutter because he doesn't throw 98 or anything, but all the kid has done is win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 09:55 AM) He covers up about 2-3 starter players problems. I'll steal a south park quote, there is always a "turd in the punch bowl" in the W.S. (possibly two) Or could it be that they are actually better at baseball than we are willing to give them credit for? We hate on a guy like Nic Punto because he beat us a few times as a Twin, but then admire how the Twins "do things the right way" in their minor league system. You can't have it both ways. I would much rather force the Nick Puntos' of the world to beat us in game situations (which they will a few times) than the Mauers & Morneaus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 10:03 AM) With the numbers he put up, and the speed he moved through the organization? He'd get some mentions. No, he isn't going to set the BA crowd aflutter because he doesn't throw 98 or anything, but all the kid has done is win. You don't disagree that the Sox farm system is one of the worst in MLB, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 10:05 AM) Or could it be that they are actually better at baseball than we are willing to give them credit for? We hate on a guy like Nic Punto because he beat us a few times as a Twin, but then admire how the Twins "do things the right way" in their minor league system. You can't have it both ways. Yes.. defensively. You could be bad in one area of the game, and be solid at the other to help stay in the league. Of course they are better than most. They are in the MLB (and 80% of them hit in the minors to earn their keep). Punto is starting because of his + UZR defense. If he hits, it's a bonus. You can't have a bunch of Dan Ugglas (08, 10 version) out there and expect to dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 10:07 AM) You don't disagree that the Sox farm system is one of the worst in MLB, do you? It is in the bottom five for sure. But then again, I am not searching for reasons to slam Kenny Williams either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 10:12 AM) Yes.. defensively. You could be bad in one area of the game, and be solid at the other to help stay in the league. Of course they are better than most. They are in the MLB (and 80% of them hit in the minors to earn their keep). Punto is starting because of his + UZR defense. If he hits, it's a bonus. You can't have a bunch of Dan Ugglas (08, 10 version) out there and expect to dominate. True, and personally I don't care much for offense only players, except for DH's. I enjoy watching good defense being played. But players like Punto obviously have more going for them than this board as a whole give them credit for or good managers like Tony LaRussa (love him or hate him) wouldn't have him on the team and place them in positions to win or lose big games. I just think that the "turd" reference was much to harsh. Sure, guys like Punto aren't as talented as most starters in MLB; but they still offer quality in some areas of their play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If Sox have worst farm system in baseball, there's only one way to retool. Free agency, baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Exactly, since proven players never fail, it makes no sense to invest less risky amounts into unproven prospects when you can just throw millions at proven players. Surefire way to get to the playoffs more than once every three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 04:33 PM) Exactly, since proven players never fail, it makes no sense to invest less risky amounts into unproven prospects when you can just throw millions at proven players. Surefire way to get to the playoffs more than once every three years. Just ask the Cubs, Angels, Orioles, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) If Sox have worst farm system in baseball, there's only one way to retool. Free agency, baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Depends on how you define special. An average LH reliever is a very valuable commodity. An average middle of the rotation starter is a very valuable commodity. An above average RH setup man is a very valuable commodity. And hell...Reed has "all star closer" type stuff, or at least that's what he seemed to have last year. Yeah, you're right. The Sox can probably count on a dynasty coming now that they have a minor league system consisting of possibly 1 future average middle of the rotation starter and possibly 1 future left handed relief pitcher. That's worth having 6 team affiliates, 40 coaches and a dozen scouts. The Sox system has been nothing short of disgraceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) And Mitchell and Thompson can still turn it around. If they start getting near their potential that is two really good OF prospects that come on to the scene. I love you, man. Would you please apply for the position of World Economic Leader? Your optimism could change the world. Or, at least not let me think about reality for a second. Edited October 22, 2011 by WHITESOXRANDY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) If Sox have worst farm system in baseball, there's only one way to retool. Free agency, baby. That's what got us in this mess in the first place. Sox need to start putting more money into drafting, scouting, developing players and less money into fat out of shape DH's who bat .160. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 20, 2011 -> 02:42 PM) 2nd round pick: Trayce Thompson, shoulder injury FYI Thompson broke his hand last year. It wasn't a shoulder injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 11:17 PM) That's what got us in this mess in the first place. Sox need to start putting more money into drafting, scouting, developing players and less money into fat out of shape DH's who bat .160. Revisionist history will fix everything@!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 11:01 PM) I love you, man. Would you please apply for the position of World Economic Leader? Your optimism could change the world. Or, at least not let me think about reality for a second. Why start now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 22, 2011 -> 08:16 AM) Revisionist history will fix everything@!! Obviously, no sane person saw Dunn having the year that he did, but he's not really wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Oct 22, 2011 -> 08:09 AM) Obviously, no sane person saw Dunn having the year that he did, but he's not really wrong here. I am cynical, but not insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (gatnom @ Oct 22, 2011 -> 08:09 AM) Obviously, no sane person saw Dunn having the year that he did, but he's not really wrong here. He's brutal. My initial point was that if you look at the Sox 05 team, that team was built by good drafting (MB, Rowand, Crede) and alot of smart signings and smart trades. Since then, KW has tried to sign and trade for big money players and for the most part it's blown up in his face. I'd like to see the Sox start using the formula that won them the WS in 05 again rather than the current one which hasn't worked at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Oct 22, 2011 -> 01:18 PM) He's brutal. My initial point was that if you look at the Sox 05 team, that team was built by good drafting (MB, Rowand, Crede) and alot of smart signings and smart trades. Since then, KW has tried to sign and trade for big money players and for the most part it's blown up in his face. I'd like to see the Sox start using the formula that won them the WS in 05 again rather than the current one which hasn't worked at all. Guys like Mark Kotsay, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Oct 22, 2011 -> 12:18 PM) He's brutal. My initial point was that if you look at the Sox 05 team, that team was built by good drafting (MB, Rowand, Crede) and alot of smart signings and smart trades. Since then, KW has tried to sign and trade for big money players and for the most part it's blown up in his face. I'd like to see the Sox start using the formula that won them the WS in 05 again rather than the current one which hasn't worked at all. We signed a TON of veteran players, it's just that they were allocated across the budget instead of making huge numbers like our "superstar" salaries for Rios, Dunn and Peavy. Dye AJ Vizcaino Iguchi Hermanson Pods El Duque (and he was seriously overpaid, of all those deals) Blum (ASB) Got rid of Valentin, Ordonez and C-Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 This had been, for a while there, one of the best threads for discussion I'd seen on the site in some time. People were being reasonable and having a good talk about the Sox' weak farm system, what it really means. Then the seagulls arrived... QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 05:59 AM) I find it comical you mention all those names: The only player that is a worthy player on a playoff contention team that was drafted was Daniel Hudson and we traded him away when he had 6 years of service time before becoming a free agent. The White Sox will never be a playoff team with players in your lineup such as Morel, Beckham, Axelrod, Short, and Flowers unless your using them as a backup. Our development of Beckham is a prime example of how we ruined this player. Look at what his swing has turned into the last 2 years. I think perhaps you don't have much real perspective here. Go look at what other teams have produced in the same timespan. Some will be better, some will be worse. Very few will have the kind of all star level guys you seem to think are commonplace. I think if you bothered to look around, you'd see that those results (note I said results - not current condition of the talent left on the farm) are not great, but also not bad. QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 06:02 AM) Josh Phegley just tore his ACL getting prepared for AFL. That's why Michael Blank took over his spot. Phegley is bascially done with our organiztion because the huge liability on him is his defense. You can't have 2 horrible defenders behind the plate with him and Flowers. His ACL? Last I saw he had a finger injury. Did I miss something? QUOTE (danman31 @ Oct 21, 2011 -> 11:19 PM) FYI Thompson broke his hand last year. It wasn't a shoulder injury. Oops. Thought for sure he had a shoulder injury, or maybe that was in a prior year. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 11:35 AM) His ACL? Last I saw he had a finger injury. Did I miss something? Wrist tear http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10...white-sox-gifts Extra innings: Catcher Josh Phegley won't play in the Arizona Fall League for the second consecutive season. Phegley was diagnosed with a small tear in a ligament in his left wrist and won't be allowed to perform any baseball activities from four to six weeks. Michael Blanke, who made a strong impression in the Instructional League in Arizona, will remain on the Mesa Solar Sox roster in place of Phegley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 12:06 PM) Wrist tear http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10...white-sox-gifts All thought FS said an ACL... I wonder which is right? http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/2011/...zzie-prospects/ Mike Blanke was a late replacement after Josh Phegley had another setback in the form of a torn ACL. Talk about a guy that can't catch a break. The AFL was an opportunity for Phegley to look like a real prospect. Instead he misses more time. Oh well, let's see if Blanke can look like a possible 2012 sleeper. Hitting stats through Thursday: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 24, 2011 -> 12:08 PM) All thought FS said an ACL... I wonder which is right? http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/2011/...zzie-prospects/ I had thought wrist or hand was right, I remember seeing that. Not sure where ACL came from, but maybe someone knows something I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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