NorthSideSox72 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 A few tidbits from the Trib, looks like the pieces will start to move pretty soon. Some interesting info, dates, etc. in here. Highlights... --SI reporting Sox trying to get M56 in a 2 year deal --Eligible FA's are MB, Pierre, Vizquel and Castro, plus Frasor on a $3.75M option --40 man is at 36 now, but the 36 includes the above --Some players who need to be protected from Rule V by 11/18: Leesman, Kuhn, JorDanks, Short and Greene --Final coaching staffa announcements coming shortly after WS concludes --Sox will have org meetings for first time since 2007 --Sox will know Hahn's status by those meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:11 AM) A few tidbits from the Trib, looks like the pieces will start to move pretty soon. Some interesting info, dates, etc. in here. Highlights... --SI reporting Sox trying to get M56 in a 2 year deal --Eligible FA's are MB, Pierre, Vizquel and Castro, plus Frasor on a $3.75M option --40 man is at 36 now, but the 36 includes the above --Some players who need to be protected from Rule V by 11/18: Leesman, Kuhn, JorDanks, Short and Greene --Final coaching staffa announcements coming shortly after WS concludes --Sox will have org meetings for first time since 2007 --Sox will know Hahn's status by those meetings I can't imagine the Sox keepign Frasor. The only free agent that has a chance at being back is Mark. I don't think I would protect Danks. Crazy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:11 AM) A few tidbits from the Trib, looks like the pieces will start to move pretty soon. Some interesting info, dates, etc. in here. Highlights... --SI reporting Sox trying to get M56 in a 2 year deal --Eligible FA's are MB, Pierre, Vizquel and Castro, plus Frasor on a $3.75M option --40 man is at 36 now, but the 36 includes the above --Some players who need to be protected from Rule V by 11/18: Leesman, Kuhn, JorDanks, Short and Greene --Final coaching staffa announcements coming shortly after WS concludes --Sox will have org meetings for first time since 2007 --Sox will know Hahn's status by those meetings This seems so bizarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 10:15 AM) I don't think I would protect Danks. Crazy? I think you pretty much have to protect him for at least 1 year. Not like we're under a huge need for roster spots here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:18 AM) I think you pretty much have to protect him for at least 1 year. Not like we're under a huge need for roster spots here. I don't see anyone out there willing to keep him on the 25 man roster. Why waste the roster spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 10:18 AM) I don't see anyone out there willing to keep him on the 25 man roster. Why waste the roster spot? No one would take him for a season and stick him as a backup OF/defensive replacement/LH pinch hitter? If I were, say, the Padres, I'd certainly consider that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:21 AM) No one would take him for a season and stick him as a backup OF/defensive replacement/LH pinch hitter? If I were, say, the Padres, I'd certainly consider that. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:15 AM) I can't imagine the Sox keepign Frasor. The only free agent that has a chance at being back is Mark. I don't think I would protect Danks. Crazy? I realize Frasor sucked but his historical pedigree says that $3.75 M for him is worth it, especially now we'll be an arm short in the pen with Sale going to the rotation next year. I'd be shocked if they didn't pick that up, actually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 I'm guessing they will protect Leesman, Danks, Kuhn and Short. Kuhn and Leesman may very well end up on the big squad in 2012. Greene they may leave unprotected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:25 AM) I realize Frasor sucked but his historical pedigree says that $3.75 M for him is worth it, especially now we'll be an arm short in the pen with Sale going to the rotation next year. I'd be shocked if they didn't pick that up, actually... They're looking to shave money, and try to re-sign MB or extend Danks (but not both probably). And they think - and I agree - that Reed is likely to be just as effective, for the rookie minimum. I doubt they pick up his option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:25 AM) I realize Frasor sucked but his historical pedigree says that $3.75 M for him is worth it, especially now we'll be an arm short in the pen with Sale going to the rotation next year. I'd be shocked if they didn't pick that up, actually... We also have some great right handed bullpen arms in the system. If they are looking to cut costs, it is a great place to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 10:23 AM) Why? A guy hitting .224 with a .534 OPS for 1/2 the season was still worth 1.1 fWAR in CF this past season. If a CF can cover serious ground while catching the ball, and by all indications D2 can...then even if he can't hit a lick he's worth a shot out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:25 AM) I realize Frasor sucked but his historical pedigree says that $3.75 M for him is worth it, especially now we'll be an arm short in the pen with Sale going to the rotation next year. I'd be shocked if they didn't pick that up, actually... Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was KW's plan. He basically replaces Tony Pena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) I realize Frasor sucked but his historical pedigree says that $3.75 M for him is worth it, especially now we'll be an arm short in the pen with Sale going to the rotation next year. I'd be shocked if they didn't pick that up, actually... The fact that he's also likely a type B FA should seal it on the Sox letting him go and offering him arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) A guy hitting .224 with a .534 OPS for 1/2 the season was still worth 1.1 fWAR in CF this past season. If a CF can cover serious ground while catching the ball, and by all indications D2 can...then even if he can't hit a lick he's worth a shot out there. SD isn't going to tie up a roster spot for a guy with minor league numbers that bad, just for a defensive replacement. They can find another OF who can hit something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) The fact that he's also likely a type B FA should seal it on the Sox letting him go and offering him arbitration. That's just it. If you were going to keep him, you;d pick up his option. If you aren't, you aren't going to offer him arbit because there is a good chance he accepts and ends up with a better salary than last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was KW's plan. He basically replaces Tony Pena The team collapse in August and September changed the plan I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 10:32 AM) SD isn't going to tie up a roster spot for a guy with minor league numbers that bad, just for a defensive replacement. They can find another OF who can hit something. Well, if I were SD's GM, and I gave Aaron Cunningham (yes, that one) 101 PA's last year as a corner OF to put up a .624 OPS, and I gave Will Venable 100 innings of crap defense in CF last year, I'd be more than willing to steal a younger player who can field to take that spot. Esp. since Cunningham is arb-eligible this offseason and is probably being cut loose. "Eating up a roster spot" doesn't worry me that much when Aaron Cunningham and Will Venable ate up roster spots last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) Well, if I were SD's GM, and I gave Aaron Cunningham (yes, that one) 101 PA's last year as a corner OF to put up a .624 OPS, and I gave Will Venable 100 innings of crap defense in CF last year, I'd be more than willing to steal a younger player who can field to take that spot. Esp. since Cunningham is arb-eligible this offseason and is probably being cut loose. "Eating up a roster spot" doesn't worry me that much when Aaron Cunningham and Will Venable ate up roster spots last year. Steal? lol. If his name weren't Danks, no one would care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 10:39 AM) Steal? lol. If his name weren't Danks, no one would care. I didn't use his name to justify anything, I used the fact that he's supposedly an exceptional defensive player. Starting from a position of weakness in an OF, especially in a big park, if I can steal an exceptional defensive player who is 3 years pre-arb for nothing, why not? It's not like he's going to block some other dynamite player I have on the way up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:43 AM) I didn't use his name to justify anything, I used the fact that he's supposedly an exceptional defensive player. Starting from a position of weakness in an OF, especially in a big park, if I can steal an exceptional defensive player who is 3 years pre-arb for nothing, why not? It's not like he's going to block some other dynamite player I have on the way up. Except if he is putting up those numbers in AAA, he is going to be putting up worse in the majors, which means he would have been pretty much the worst hitter in all of baseball. The only reason he gets debated is because he is a Danks. Any other player putting up his numbers would be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 10:46 AM) Except if he is putting up those numbers in AAA, he is going to be putting up worse in the majors, which means he would have been pretty much the worst hitter in all of baseball. The only reason he gets debated is because he is a Danks. Any other player putting up his numbers would be gone. He put up a .770 OPS in AAA last year. Let's hypothetically say that this translates to a low .600/upper .500's OPS while playing in SD. If he's a legit gold-glove CF, then he's still a 2-3 WAR player in a full season if he's a top defensive CF. The reason this is debateable has nothing to do with his name and everything to do with what defensive metrics are telling me about player value. As I said, 300 at bats last year for Gutierrez, 1 HR, .534 OPS, 1.1 WAR. He put up a .534 OPS, "Worst hitter in all of baseball" level, and still was a valuable player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:51 AM) He put up a .770 OPS in AAA last year. Let's hypothetically say that this translates to a low .600/upper .500's OPS while playing in SD. If he's a legit gold-glove CF, then he's still a 2-3 WAR player in a full season if he's a top defensive CF. The reason this is debateable has nothing to do with his name and everything to do with what defensive metrics are telling me about player value. As I said, 300 at bats last year for Gutierrez, 1 HR, .534 OPS, 1.1 WAR. He put up a .534 OPS, "Worst hitter in all of baseball" level, and still was a valuable player. A defensive replacement on a bad baseball team isn't a valuable piece. You keep throwing the WAR numbers out there, but those are as a starter in AAA. How many ABs do you really think he gets hitting as badly as he has? He'll be an 8th and 9th inning piece for the most part. It is pretty difficult to build up defensive numbers when you play a couple of innings a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 09:33 AM) That's just it. If you were going to keep him, you;d pick up his option. If you aren't, you aren't going to offer him arbit because there is a good chance he accepts and ends up with a better salary than last year. There is no chance in hell Frasor gets more than $3.75 million in arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 25, 2011 -> 10:00 AM) There is no chance in hell Frasor gets more than $3.75 million in arbitration. He made $3.5 million last year. The very lowest he could get is $2.8 million. I don't know that I have ever seen that happen. Even if he just gets what he got last year, the Sox aren't the type of team to go through arbitration for that small of a difference (250k) If he is coming back the Sox are picking up his option. If they don't pick it up, they aren't offering arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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