Balta1701 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 02:09 AM) Not even saying this cause I despise Ozzie but he's been a f***in hassle to listen to because well you can't understand a damn thing he says. AJ actually provides seem decent analysis and has a good tv demeanor, I enjoy him. AJ is one of those guys who could easily manage someday if his roster didn't try to kill him first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Tyler Flowers has a .197 career batting average and strikes out about as much as Adam Dunn. Its amazing how many people are even slightly excited about his future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 05:52 AM) Tyler Flowers has a .197 career batting average and strikes out about as much as Adam Dunn. Its amazing how many people are even slightly excited about his future. He did post a .719 OPS this year though, which was 9 points lower than AJ and 31 points higher than AJ posted in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 05:52 AM) Tyler Flowers has a .197 career batting average and strikes out about as much as Adam Dunn. Its amazing how many people are even slightly excited about his future. Player V - .243/.322/.312/.634, 5 HR, 26 XBH, 623 PAs Player F - .197/.317/.365/.682, 5 HR, 11 XBH, 164 PAs Player dA - .329/.400/.520/.920, 4 HR, 18 XBH, 171 PAs one of these players is managing the White Sox and had a fantastic career, one of these players is going to be a 26 year old catcher who will likely start full-time as a 27 year old unless AJ Pierzynski is traded in the offseason, and one of these players is going to be 28 years old and has, for the most part, spent his entire career in the minors. I don't think I need to explain who is who. Moral of the story: Don't cite a statistic when the player hasn't had a statistically sustainable amount of plate appearances to suggest a trend. You are old enough to remember Ventura coming up - did you foresee another 289 homers and being one of the greatest 3B of his generation after 623 PAs? Do you think Alejandro de Aza is a .330 hitter? Because you should IF YOU ARE CITING FLOWERS' CAREER AVERAGE. C'MON MAN /Keyshawn'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 07:02 AM) Player V - .243/.322/.312/.634, 5 HR, 26 XBH, 623 PAs Player F - .197/.317/.365/.682, 5 HR, 11 XBH, 164 PAs Player dA - .329/.400/.520/.920, 4 HR, 18 XBH, 171 PAs one of these players is managing the White Sox and had a fantastic career, one of these players is going to be a 26 year old catcher who will likely start full-time as a 27 year old unless AJ Pierzynski is traded in the offseason, and one of these players is going to be 28 years old and has, for the most part, spent his entire career in the minors. I don't think I need to explain who is who. Moral of the story: Don't cite a statistic when the player hasn't had a statistically sustainable amount of plate appearances to suggest a trend. You are old enough to remember Ventura coming up - did you foresee another 289 homers and being one of the greatest 3B of his generation after 623 PAs? Do you think Alejandro de Aza is a .330 hitter? Because you should IF YOU ARE CITING FLOWERS' CAREER AVERAGE. C'MON MAN /Keyshawn'd Actually I remember Ventura quite well. He was after all one of the greatest players in college baseball history. Also Flowers has a long history of strikeouts, and hasn't shown he can hit .215 yet in the major leagues and as you pointed out, isn't exactly 21 years old. If you don't think there is a "trend" with Flowers and lack of ability to make contact...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 07:18 AM) Actually I remember Ventura quite well. He was after all one of the greatest players in college baseball history. Also Flowers has a long history of strikeouts, and hasn't shown he can hit .215 yet in the major leagues and as you pointed out, isn't exactly 21 years old. If you don't think there is a "trend" with Flowers and lack of ability to make contact...................... I never suggested that, merely that pointing out batting average from a 164 plate apperance sample size is stupid, as is suggesting de Aza is a fantastic hitter in the same number of plate appearances, as is Ventura a terrible hitter in 4 times the amount of plate appearances. Oh, and the fact that he's a power/patience type hitter? Probably should have mentioned that too. If he hits .220 and plays adequate defense, he's a perfectly viable option as a starting catcher. And if he hits better than that and maintains his adequate defense, than he is an incredibly valuable asset to the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 27, 2011 -> 09:33 PM) I wouldn't say "collapse" if flowers put up a .750 ops but AJ helped lead a winning team I bet AJ would be brought back for 1 more year. If Flowers is putting up a .750 OPS, he has probably replaced AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 01:09 AM) Not even saying this cause I despise Ozzie but he's been a f***in hassle to listen to because well you can't understand a damn thing he says. AJ actually provides seem decent analysis and has a good tv demeanor, I enjoy him. He has a perfect personality for that gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 08:36 AM) If Flowers is putting up a .750 OPS, he has probably replaced AJ. I bet you the opposite would happen. They'll go with the "Veteran lefty" unless Flowers is really raking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 07:38 AM) I bet you the opposite would happen. If Flowers is hitting, he is playing. I don't think there is any doubt about that. Ozzie is gone. We don't have to have the slavery to vets anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 08:39 AM) If Flowers is hitting, he is playing. I don't think there is any doubt about that. Ozzie is gone. We don't have to have the slavery to vets anymore. Couple points. First of all...I don't know what Robin will be like in this regard. No guarantee he won't have his guys also...and secondly, we're also talking about the catcher's position, and its not just the manager who makes the call there...the pitching coach and the pitchers are going to have input over who they like too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 07:41 AM) Couple points. First of all...I don't know what Robin will be like in this regard. No guarantee he won't have his guys also...and secondly, we're also talking about the catcher's position, and its not just the manager who makes the call there...the pitching coach and the pitchers are going to have input over who they like too. And by all indications Flowers is already better behind the plate than AJ, and AJ really doesn't appear to even call his own games anymore. He always looks into the dugout before putting down the sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 04:39 AM) All Flowers has to be is OK defensively. The great hitting potential he has shown in the minors would simply be a bonus. AJP's money owed is an albatross when one considers what a franchise with our budget issues could do with a few guys off the books. I wouldn't say this if AJ could do much else defensively besides block a pitch. When you consider contract albatrosses on the Sox AJP is not a name or contract I think of. If Tyler Flowers can produce defensively AND with the bat he could become the lead catcher. I don't think it is out of the question that AJP stays for a year or two after 2012. Obviously a lot depends on the Sox winning, etc, but catcher is aposition you need to have some experience and leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 02:01 PM) And by all indications Flowers is already better behind the plate than AJ, and AJ really doesn't appear to even call his own games anymore. He always looks into the dugout before putting down the sign. Don't you think this is a common thing across baseball though? The catcher is supposed to be the field leader and needs to check with the manager or bench coach to see if they have a pitch they want thrown or if a play is on. There isn't any catcher I can think of that a TV camera doesn't show looking into the dugout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 27, 2011 -> 12:15 PM) Like who? Name a team. I think we have gone over the list before, and there are few, if any teams that could use him. The Angels had utter garbage at catcher and could use him. I know Angel fans hate him but he'd be an upgrade. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be other options that are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 12:39 PM) The Angels had utter garbage at catcher and could use him. I know Angel fans hate him but he'd be an upgrade. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be other options that are better. So did Sox fans pre 05... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 04:29 AM) He did post a .719 OPS this year though, which was 9 points lower than AJ and 31 points higher than AJ posted in 2010. If Flowers doesn't continue to improve, we'd have some serious blackholes in our lineup between Dunn and Flowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 11:52 AM) Tyler Flowers has a .197 career batting average and strikes out about as much as Adam Dunn. Its amazing how many people are even slightly excited about his future. I know. That's what people should be gagging on. Not elrockin's post. QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 27, 2011 -> 10:31 PM) Flowers will have to show more development this year or I am betting AJP ends 2012 as the #1 Sox catcher and they are trying to extend him for 2013 and 14. Tyler has been inconsistent to say the least, but showed signs of maturing at the big league level. Hard to judge right now what he might do if handed the job. Talent for sure but he needs to show it on a day in day out basis I know people aren't happy about it. I'm not either, but as of right now the Sox don't have what I'd call a decent option at catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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