StrangeSox Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 beer-based votes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) beer-based votes Ah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cws0591 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Hamilton was one bad-ass mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 QUOTE (cws0591 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) Hamilton was one bad-ass mother. Not so much when it came to a duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Not so much when it came to a duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Washington may be the father of our country but Franklin fathered a whole lot more and on two continents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Jefferson, followed closely by J-Mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 07:31 AM) T-Paine. Pre-Marx Marxist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 10:18 AM) I completely disagree. At this point, it's the fashionable thing to not pick Washington. It makes you look more intelligent to a regular schmo. Similar to saying George Harrison is the most talented of the Beatles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 12:02 PM) Similar to saying George Harrison is the most talented of the Beatles. Come on now, everyone knows it was Ringo. "Octopus's Garden" was f***ing brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) Not so much when it came to a duel. God told him he'd get a shot off, not that he'd win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 12:02 PM) Similar to saying George Harrison is the most talented of the Beatles. Quiet, you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Tough call between John Adams, James Madison and Ben Franklin. Hard to compare them really, as they were such different animals, but all so crucial to making it work. Washington was a natural leader more so than any of those, but he was also far from a brilliant strategist. He was a tactician, and his input into the way the country was established, other than his military record, was less than stellar IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 His militarty record was greatly helped by a couple of his Freemason buddies Lafayett and Von Steuban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (God Loves The Infantry @ Oct 30, 2011 -> 09:48 AM) Pre-Marx Marxist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 08:20 AM) Tough call between John Adams, James Madison and Ben Franklin. Hard to compare them really, as they were such different animals, but all so crucial to making it work. Washington was a natural leader more so than any of those, but he was also far from a brilliant strategist. He was a tactician, and his input into the way the country was established, other than his military record, was less than stellar IMO. Like shaping the modern presidency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 11:54 AM) Like shaping the modern presidency? I didn't say he wasn't important - just that I think others were more so. He had a framework to function within, that he had very little input into building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 01:55 PM) I didn't say he wasn't important - just that I think others were more so. He had a framework to function within, that he had very little input into building. The most important thing Washington did was decide that he didn't want to be come a king/dictator. The army probably would have followed him if he'd wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) The most important thing Washington did was decide that he didn't want to be come a king/dictator. The army probably would have followed him if he'd wanted to. But that's hardly important. The fact that he set the framework for two terms being the max, to be referred to as Mr. President and not His Excellency, or to flat-out become the monarch of America is something that was set up by the legislators in Philadelphia. George Washington was merely selected because he was the leader of an army that owes its victory to French generals that set them up to win. And once he was selected, he was put into a framework that he could in no way alter by creating an entirely new monarchy. Edited October 31, 2011 by Milkman delivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 28, 2011 -> 10:53 AM) poor john jay. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know jack s*** about John Jay. Isn't he like the only one to have signed all the major documents at the beginning though (or some trivia of the sort). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I say Jefferson, because it's like he invented a time machine, came forward to the present, and then went back and said the following things to warn us BEFORE it happened: “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” “Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases.” ...and last but most importantly... “I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.” He didn't foresee this...he knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 1, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) I'm embarrassed to say I don't know jack s*** about John Jay. Isn't he like the only one to have signed all the major documents at the beginning though (or some trivia of the sort). Not a Cardinals fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 12:06 PM) But that's hardly important. The fact that he set the framework for two terms being the max, to be referred to as Mr. President and not His Excellency, or to flat-out become the monarch of America is something that was set up by the legislators in Philadelphia. George Washington was merely selected because he was the leader of an army that owes its victory to French generals that set them up to win. And once he was selected, he was put into a framework that he could in no way alter by creating an entirely new monarchy. All I can say is look at how all of them were viewed in their own times... Washington demolishes the rest of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 1, 2011 -> 02:36 PM) All I can say is look at how all of them were viewed in their own times... Washington demolishes the rest of them. Another good way of looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 1, 2011 -> 02:36 PM) All I can say is look at how all of them were viewed in their own times... Washington demolishes the rest of them. Actually Franklin was on par with Washington in that respect. It was Franklin's suggestion of a two house system that saved the Constitutional Convention when they could not find a compromise that the small and large states could agree upon. Franklin was one of a few, like Washington, that everyone would listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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