RockRaines Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 06:06 PM) 2nd biggest payroll or not he's been head of the best organization in baseball since his arrival, that's the fascination. Depends, one could argue the Cardinals have been the best. Of course doing the most with the least has been the Rays. So what qualifies as the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 06:25 PM) Depends, one could argue the Cardinals have been the best. Of course doing the most with the least has been the Rays. So what qualifies as the best? Up until the M brothers fell apart the Twins would have to be in that discussion as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 04:54 PM) Hell these hires (and the retention of KW) could end up working out in the end but that does absolutely nothing for my current mental health and nothing the Sox have done over the past month has inspired a shred of confidence in the fan base. Meanwhile we're forced to watch while across town Tom Ricketts has done exactly what he promised when he bought the Cubs: blow up the pathetic, losing culture that has overwhelmed that franchise for generations. Not only has he radically altered the trajectory of his franchise he's seemingly done it flawlessly to this point. The Cubs get Theo who sells his vision about as well as anyone and we get the perpetually vexed KW, things are good. So, I take it you are also against the Sox hirings as well? I don't think I ever saw you weigh in since it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE CUBS JUST PICKED UP THE BEST GM IN HISTORY OR NOT. THE FACT IS THAT THEY HAVE DRASTICALLY IMPROVED. PERIOD. NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Edited November 3, 2011 by Milkman delivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 06:15 PM) That's really an absurd assumption. That's a thoughtless and empty ass reply. Try backing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 07:00 PM) IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE CUBS JUST PICKED UP THE BEST GM IN HISTORY OR NOT. THE FACT IS THAT THEY HAVE DRASTICALLY IMPROVED. PERIOD. NOT UP FOR DEBATE. No, thats definitely not true. Their roster has actually taken a step backwards and may actually be worse than last year. The players are the ones that actually have a direct effect on the record of the ballclub. As of right now, they arent as good as the s***ty team they had last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 06:46 PM) Up until the M brothers fell apart the Twins would have to be in that discussion as well. Yeah, but they havent won any titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Well they've said that they won't compete next year. It's like they're taking a step back to take more steps forward. Epstein will rip up the organization from top to bottom and build it to his liking. I'm just not convinced he has any better shot than any other GM at winning it all. Now Andrew Friedman would have been different. That dude is money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 07:04 PM) No, thats definitely not true. Their roster has actually taken a step backwards and may actually be worse than last year. The players are the ones that actually have a direct effect on the record of the ballclub. As of right now, they arent as good as the s***ty team they had last year. I meant in the FO/leadership aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 07:01 PM) That's a thoughtless and empty ass reply. Try backing it up. Because there's a ton of gm's with a lot of money that have never done anything. Not to mention the great drafting and development that Theo has been apart of with the Sawx. High payroll or not, the guy won 2 World Series and went to the playoffs 6 out of 9 years, to say that half the gm's in baseball could have done that when a lot of other teams in the Red Sox payroll vicinity were having trouble just making the playoffs is indeed absurd. And for the record, I don't think Theo is the best gm in baseball and I certainly don't believe that him being the president of that team ensures any World Series wins or even playoff series victories but Cubs fans have every right to be thrilled just as the media has every reason to be fascinated with the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 How many gms have had that kind of money and not won at least 1 ws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 07:40 PM) How many gms have had that kind of money and not won at least 1 ws? How many have won 2 in that time frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) So does Jed Hoyer actually have any power in Chicago? Because everyone is talking about what Theo is going to do to this team, and who he is going to pick as his manager. Didn't Kenny pick Robin? Isn't that the GM's job? I mean, obviously the president has a say in it, but I was under the impression that the GM assembles the team and picks the coaches, the president just oversees and sets the budget. No? Edited November 3, 2011 by JoeCoolMan24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 08:27 PM) So does Jed Hoyer actually have any power in Chicago? Because everyone is talking about what Theo is going to do to this team, and who he is going to pick as his manager. Didn't Kenny pick Robin? Isn't that the GM's job? I mean, obviously the president has a say in it, but I was under the impression that the GM assembles the team and picks the coaches, the president just oversees and sets the budget. No? I was thinking the same thing when I read Theo talk about letting Quade go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 07:41 PM) How many have won 2 in that time frame? How many players from the 2004 champs did Theo actually acquire himself? Of the players Theo did trade for, how many of the prospects were drafted by the previous regime? How many of Theo's best players were proven roiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 11:02 PM) How many players from the 2004 champs did Theo actually acquire himself? Of the players Theo did trade for, how many of the prospects were drafted by the previous regime? How many of Theo's best players were proven roiders? Just off the top of my head, Schilling, Foulke and the Nomar trade were pretty huge in the grand picture of that championship No idea, if he used them to acquire the correct talent than good for him. And this 3rd point really means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Cubs are getting a lot of press these days. I kind of wish the Sox had a do-over and named Tito. Robin coulda been 3B coach or bench coach to be groomed. s*** I'd like him to be hitting coach. Robin had a nice swing and approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 07:05 PM) Yeah, but they havent won any titles. Neither has Tampa, and they got a mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 07:40 PM) How many gms have had that kind of money and not won at least 1 ws? Considering there is only one other team in baseball who spends as much as the Yankees.... Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 07:41 PM) How many have won 2 in that time frame? Just Theo. Cashman only has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 3, 2011 -> 12:13 AM) Just off the top of my head, Schilling, Foulke and the Nomar trade were pretty huge in the grand picture of that championship No idea, if he used them to acquire the correct talent than good for him. And this 3rd point really means nothing. The thing that I keep coming back to about almost all of Theo's winning trades has been...in almost every case, he took advantage of the fact that he had Boston's resources and the trading partner did not. Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling, Keith Foulke, Adrian Beltre...these were all guys that were close to becoming Free Agents and had teams that were unwilling or unable to sign them, because they knew that the next offseason, Boston could outbid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 3, 2011 -> 07:36 AM) Considering there is only one other team in baseball who spends as much as the Yankees.... Zero. Er, that was supposed to be " as the Red Sox, the Yankees... zero" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) What was once known as "The World's Greatest Newspaper" apparently thinks its important for folks to know this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,6969115.story Edited November 3, 2011 by PlaySumFnJurny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 The Cubs are interviewing Phillies bench coach Pete Mackanin for their Managerial job. He interviewed with the Red Sox on Monday. Moral of the story? Theo's a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I think these are nice moves but I am not hearing anyone say anything other than these are miracles to the team, outside of this site. This is the sure thing big splash that the cubs always do it just has a different message. The Twins are still good because of the work Andy McPhail did to build an organization. Dallas Green was fired because he was too good at the job, no joke. Riggelman, Dusty, Baylor, Pinella...all the same guys Theo is looking for. How is this move any different? Jed Hoyer was about to be fired. He is a sock puppet for Theo and will be the first fall guy when it fails. Same thing with the Scouting Director they got from SD. They took a 90 win team and turned it into a 70 win team in one off-season. That is brilliance. In the 1997 offseason the Red Sox got Jason Varitek and Pedro Martinez handed to them. The Red Sox averaged 90 wins for the next 6 years. Then Theo was hired with a nicely roided up Manny and Ortiz. He has Starlin and Garza to build on here..... The cubs are not the Boston Red Sox never have been. The Red Sox were frequent visitors to the World Series who had to compete annually with the Yankees who are there every few years. The cubs in the NL historically have to worry about.......the Marlins...or their bitter rivals and winner of 11 WS the Cardinals Theo did some good things and he is a smart guy. Does he know something that the other GM's do not? Every team has taken a part of he A's and Red Sox model....the model is not working that well for Oakland....Theo has his proprietary way of thinking. This way of thinking is now in Arizona, San Diego and remains in Boston. Theo was surrounded by a great organization and great baseball minds in Chicago he will be surrounded by a few guys that were canned by the Padres, Crane Kenny, a goat, a cat and maybe if they make the playoffs an Orthodox Priest. Rick Hahn is the highest paid assistant in baseball and has turned down interviews to be teams GM's because of the train wreck that is paying his bills.. If Tony LaRussa becomes the President of the White Sox has he won enough to make our off season as pretty as the cubs? The cubs needed to make these moves as they do not have the finances to sign the free agents to get the fans back. They are going to build from within and spend money on Theo to be the shiny new toy to get he lemmings out to the friendly confines. They may even bring in an unemployed Tito or Dale Sveum...yes a hitting coach who was able to work miracles with Fielder and Bruan...ah the new cub mentality. Theo is going to go at it the way most organizations wiht limited finances are now going about it, through the farm system and draft........the fellow down in KC has the next 5 world series wrapped up then Theo can win the next 5 I always go out to the game to see the GM sitting in his box watching.....ah the sheep... they buy lock stock and barrell into everything. Season Tickets fro the Peoria Chiefs are on sale now get them while you still can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts