southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I wonder what the record for least wins in a season is between both clubs? We could be looking at 145-150 wins between these two teams. http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/cubs-talk/p...amp;feedID=8487 Kaplan: Cubs to go through a complete rebuild December 21, 2011, 12:20 pm After speaking with several baseball sources over the past few days I am hearing that a complete and total rebuild of the Cubs is more likely than ever to take place during the remainder of the off-season. I have confirmed that Sean Marshall is definitely on the block and he is well aware of that fact. The latest speculation has Marshall going to the Reds but those same sources do not believe that a deal for left-handed starter Travis Wood is as close as has been portrayed. However, Marshall along with several other players on the Cubs roster are all being shopped as Theo Epstein, Jed Hoyer, and company look to maximize their value as they look to completely overhaul the team. In speaking with a current major league executive from outside Chicago who would only speak with me on the condition of anonymity he was brutally honest in evaluating where the Cubs are right now. “If you are completely honest about the current roster that Theo and Jed inherited I don’t see more than a handful of pieces that a championship type team would want to have on their roster. Garza, Castro, Marshall, perhaps Marmol if they can get his wildness under control, and maybe another bullpen piece or two and that’s about it,” he told me. As I questioned him further he told me that the talk around baseball when it comes to the Cubs is that they need a full scale house cleaning. “There is no doubt that the Cubs need a major overhaul and with that comes a couple of seasons of teams that will have more than its share of struggles. However, if Theo and Jed can make astute deals for the few pieces that they do have the rebuild can get off to a very good start. In the addition, the farm system is not in good shape in terms of nearly major league ready starting pitching so if they can make some very solid deals they can reload in the minor leagues as well,” he said. A look at the current makeup of the Cubs roster shows a handful of big contracts that the Cubs are having trouble trying to move despite their willingness to eat significant portions of the remaining dollars. From Alfonso Soriano to Carlos Zambrano, to Ryan Dempster, the Cubs have approximately $50 million tied up in players who do not figure to be a part of their future when they are ready to win. Add in Marshall, Carlos Marmol and Marlon Byrd along with a handful of others who do not figure to be a part of the Cubs long term future and you have current 2012 salary commitments that total $72,850,000. Add in deals that would have to get done with Matt Garza, Geovany Soto, and others who are arbitration eligible and the Cubs 2012 payroll climbs into the 90+ million dollar range. Now with that much money already committed you have a 71 win team from 2011 that has lost one of its top power bats in Carlos Pena and has only added David DeJesus and Ian Stewart which cannot at this point be considered major additions to the roster. The starting pitching is still among baseball’s worst and the everyday lineup has a number of holes in it. Question marks include first base, third base, left field, at least two if not three spots in the rotation and a couple of spots in the bullpen. That doesn’t include the question marks that occupy the other positions of the current team. Is Soto really worth the $4-5 million or so that he will earn in 2012 and is he the catcher of the future? Is Darwin Barney the long-term answer at 2nd base? A look at the pitching staff shows more questions that need answers such as the closer role where Marmol has a world of talent but is coming off of a horrific 2011 when he blew 10 saves and saw his K’s per 9 innings drop by four strikeouts from his record-setting 2010 season. Is he the long-term answer in that role or could the Cubs get a solid return if they were to move him in a deal? The Cubs roster is devoid of impact position players with the exception of Starlin Castro. So the question that must be asked is does it make sense for Epstein and Hoyer to spend significant dollars to try to patchwork a lineup that has virtually no chance of contending? Or should they use this one opportunity to truly tear the team down to its foundation and rebuild it the right way knowing that major on field success is a few years away? One thing that Tom Ricketts has shown in his statements to the media and the fan base ever since he purchased the franchise is that he is in this for the long haul so from that perspective a complete rebuild makes a lot of sense. When Epstein spoke to the media before the winter meetings he gave this assessment of the potential for the Cubs to sign a free agent to a mega contract. “We’ve been consistent from Day 1 that our priorities are building this thing the right way, for the long haul, mainly through scouting and player development and through the acquisition of young players. The second priority is to take advantage of every opportunity to win that you have. But we’re not going to do anything to serve the second priority that disrupts the first. So any rumor that you hear, it’s probably worth your while to assess it through that lens. Not saying that we’re not going to make a move that might be unanticipated or catch people by surprise or might not on its face fit perfectly into that box. But generally that’s our philosophy. That’s how we’re evaluating moves as we try to build this thing.” Two other sources confirmed to me today that the Cubs are not players in the Prince Fielder negotiations and are not preparing to make a major offer to land him. In fact, the same major league sources expect the Cubs to try to move most of their valuable assets before spring training and that a complete overhaul of the team will definitely happen. As one current NL executive told me it is about time that it happened. “The Cubs have never had the guts to completely blow up their roster and build it the right way. They have to have a plan for sustained success instead of always trying to patchwork a roster for a surprising season. They should have done that when Andy MacPhail took over but for whatever reason they couldn’t or wouldn’t. By the time Jim Hendry became the GM they had some young starting pitching and a mandate from management in 2006-09 to try to buy their way to a championship. It never worked out so the rebuild is the right way to go,” he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 12:53 PM) I wonder what the record for least wins in a season is between both clubs? We could be looking at 145-150 wins between these two teams. http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/cubs-talk/p...amp;feedID=8487 A quick glance showed me 134 wins in 1980. Sox were 70-90 with 2 ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal Source: #Cubs sign Manny Corpas to sign one-year, major-league deal. #MLB Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal Corpas had TJ in Sept. 2010. Rehabbed with #Rangers part of '11. They declined option on him. Pitched winter ball in Panama. #Cubs #MLB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 keithlaw keithlaw Cubs to receive Travis Wood, Dave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes for Sean Marshall. Deal to be announced later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Pretty good trade by the Cubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 09:52 AM) Pretty good trade by the Cubs That's what I thought. 4 prospects, no matter how projected, is a good haul for set up guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Thats a fantastic package for Marshall. Torreyes has been one of the more interesting prospects out there. He's TINY (5'9" 140), but can hit and is very scrappy. There's definitely some Pedroia in him. Not surprised Theo targeted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (sircaffey @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) Thats a fantastic package for Marshall. Torreyes has been one of the more interesting prospects out there. He's TINY (5'9" 140), but can hit and is very scrappy. There's definitely some Pedroia in him. Not surprised Theo targeted him. Kevin Goldstein says he has NO power though. Maybe more of a Darin Erstad. EDIT: After looking up Erstad's number, holy steroid 2000 season! Erstad hit .355/.409/.541/.950 with 25 HR, 100 RBI, 28 SB, put up an 8.8 WAR and an incredible defensive season. After A-Rod and Helton, Erstad was arguably the 3rd best player in baseball in 2000. Edited December 24, 2011 by JoeCoolMan24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 03:48 AM) Kevin Goldstein says he has NO power though. Maybe more of a Darin Erstad. EDIT: After looking up Erstad's number, holy steroid 2000 season! Erstad hit .355/.409/.541/.950 with 25 HR, 100 RBI, 28 SB, put up an 8.8 WAR and an incredible defensive season. After A-Rod and Helton, Erstad was arguably the 3rd best player in baseball in 2000. Erstad was a former number one pick though. Guy always had a ton of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 03:53 PM) That's what I thought. 4 prospects, no matter how projected, is a good haul for set up guy. Definitely. I think Travis Wood alone would have been a decent trade for the Cubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 02:48 AM) Kevin Goldstein says he has NO power though. Maybe more of a Darin Erstad. Well he is 140 lbs. I'm surprised he can swing a wooden bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 02:48 AM) Kevin Goldstein says he has NO power though. Maybe more of a Darin Erstad. EDIT: After looking up Erstad's number, holy steroid 2000 season! Erstad hit .355/.409/.541/.950 with 25 HR, 100 RBI, 28 SB, put up an 8.8 WAR and an incredible defensive season. After A-Rod and Helton, Erstad was arguably the 3rd best player in baseball in 2000. and then his body totally fell apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) Erstad was a former number one pick though. Guy always had a ton of talent. That guy also never had an outlier season like 2000. He put up career highs in every single category. Hell, he never hit over .295 in any other season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 26, 2011 -> 01:38 PM) That guy also never had an outlier season like 2000. He put up career highs in every single category. Hell, he never hit over .295 in any other season. That doesn't mean the answer is "Steroids". Although, it certainly could be thanks Mr. Selig and Fehr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 CUBS signed Andy Sonnanstine on the cheap. With Wood and now this recent acquisition, looking to rebuild their starting pitching depth chart a bit. If we're really going to deal Floyd, Sonnanstine would have been decent filler for 1/2+ season, although he's probably too homer prone for USCF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 26, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) CUBS signed Andy Sonnanstine on the cheap. With Wood and now this recent acquisition, looking to rebuild their starting pitching depth chart a bit. If we're really going to deal Floyd, Sonnanstine would have been decent filler for 1/2+ season, although he's probably too homer prone for USCF. I know he pitched for the Rays in that great 08 season, but there's just really not much to him. Spent a good chunk of several seasons down at AAA, never really put up great #'s there either. I'd rather see what Axelrod can bring in a 1/2 season if we need that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I can't wait to see my first Epstein jersey or better yet the two guys with Epstein and Hoyer jerseys sitting next to one another. I am just curious what number they put on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 27, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) I can't wait to see my first Epstein jersey or better yet the two guys with Epstein and Hoyer jerseys sitting next to one another. I am just curious what number they put on it. Don't expect that. Hardly any of them even know who Jed Hoyer is. They all think Theo is their GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 27, 2011 -> 12:22 PM) Don't expect that. Hardly any of them even know who Jed Hoyer is. They all think Theo is their GM. It seems like he is, Hoyer appears to just be the title-holder. Every story on the "moves" they have made so far all seem to quote Theo more than they do Hoyer. I doubt Hoyer can make any decision without Theo's full support. He's like Theo's puppet IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 27, 2011 -> 09:57 AM) I can't wait to see my first Epstein jersey or better yet the two guys with Epstein and Hoyer jerseys sitting next to one another. I am just curious what number they put on it. What would suck even more would be to be a Cubs' fan with the last name Epstein or Hoyer and have your actual name on the back of an authentic jersey and yet dealing with all those thinking you were a front office fanboy lunatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/20...uccess-of-cubs/ White Sox Owner Has Much To Say About Success Of Cubs The next phone call new Chicago Cubs general manager Theo Epstein makes should be to Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf. Not to discuss a trade the city’s other MLB team, but to get a better deal for Cubs games televised on Comcast SportsNet Chicago, the regional sports network that launched in 2004. Reinsdorf, by dint of owning the White Sox and Chicago’s NBA team, the Bulls, owns 40% of the RSN. The remaining equity is owned by the Rickett’s family (20%), Rocky Wirtz (20%), who owns the NHL’s Blackhawks, and Comcast (20%). Things have not gone too well for the Ricketts family since acquiring the Chicago Cubs, Wrigley Field and a 20% stake in the regional sports network Comcast SportsNet Chicago for $845 million during the summer of 2009 in a highly leveraged transaction that has left the MLB team with debt equal to 75% of its value. Last year the Cubs trimmed their opening day payroll $10 million, to $134 million, according to Cot’s Baseball Contracts. The Cubs won only 71 games in 2011 and just 75 the previous year. Last season attendance at Wrigley fell for the third consecutive season, to 37,200, down 3,500 per game from 2008. The Ricketts family has done a decent job of increasing revenue through concerts and other events as well as selling sponsorships for their new Spanish radio broadcasts. The team has also switched telecasts of more games from WGN-TV to CSN Chicago because they get more money per broadcast from the RSN. But therein lies the rub: in 2011 the Cubs only received $450,000 per game on CSN Chicago, or $37 million. A fair market value for the third-largest television market would be at least twice that amount. But who knows if Reinsdorf, whose team gets the same per game as the Cubs, would go along? After all, given how little debt his teams have Reinsdorf’s equity and dividend payouts from the RSN probably suit him just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Jed Hoyer and his wife just had a kid......they named him Beckett. Holy s***, is there any part of their life that Theo Epstein doesn't control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 30, 2011 -> 03:14 AM) Jed Hoyer and his wife just had a kid......they named him Beckett. Holy s***, is there any part of their life that Theo Epstein doesn't control? Well Theo was there giving pointers at the conception, so it makes sense that he had input on the child's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors Cubs Sign Yasiel Balaguert And Carlos Martinez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Big Z is about to be Ozzie Guillen's problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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