Milkman delivers Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 12:52 PM) And yet, going into 2010, less than 2 years ago, the Cardinals farm system was viewed to be a disaster. Here's baseball America putting them 29th. So, what you're saying is that the Sox needn't worry because the same thing will happen for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 11:47 AM) Those two, Wong, a strong 1b in Adams...not too bad of a farm I like Wong. But he's a ways away. I was referring to guys that could impact the big club in 2012/2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Any chance he joins the Sox front office in some capacity? I also heard a rumor that La Russa gave the Sox their scouting reports for the Astros back in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 11:36 AM) I wasn't saying that the Sox could have hired TLR. I was inferring that it's a good thing the Sox hired Ventura earlier, because he would obviously be the #1 candidate for the Cardinals job too. (sarcasm) TLR had less than one year of minor league managerial experience when he was hired by the White Sox as their MLB manager. Worked out pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 12:43 PM) All I know is that in the last two years their farm has produced David Freese, Jaime Garcia, Allen Craig, Fernando Salas, Jon Jay, Jason Motte, Mitchell Boggs and Eduardo Sanchez. They're doing something right over there. And obviously Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are both on the cusp. Well, Freese was drafted by the Padres and spent his first 3 years from 2006-2008 in their system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 02:27 PM) TLR had less than one year of minor league managerial experience when he was hired by the White Sox as their MLB manager. Worked out pretty good. The White Sox gave La Russa his first managerial opportunity in 1978 by naming him skipper of their Double-A affiliate, the Knoxville Sox of the Southern League. La Russa spent only a half-season at Knoxville before being promoted to the White Sox coaching staff when owner Bill Veeck changed managers from Bob Lemon to Larry Doby. But Doby struggled in the managerial role and was fired at the end of the season; Don Kessinger, former star shortstop of the crosstown Cubs, was named the White Sox' player-manager for 1979, and La Russa was demoted to manager of the Triple-A Iowa Oaks of the American Association. But Kessinger was not the answer, either. The ChiSox were only 46–60 when he was fired and La Russa was summoned from Iowa, two-thirds of the way through the 1979 season Looks like he had almost 2 years of managing/coaching experience before he became the White Sox manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 05:17 PM) Looks like he had almost 2 years of managing/coaching experience before he became the White Sox manager. 2/3 + 1/2 1.16 years. That more accurate? Less than Mark Parent. Edited October 31, 2011 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) 2/3 + 1/2 1.16 years. That more accurate? Less than Mark Parent. It says he spent the whole first year in a combination of managing in the minors and being a coach in the majors. The second year he was the minor league manager for 2/3 of the season, then was named the major league manager. Keep in mind, all of this happened because of just awful play by the team that seems to have forced the move. But that's still 1 2/3 years of experience before becoming the manager. And also over 30 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 12:43 PM) All I know is that in the last two years their farm has produced David Freese, Jaime Garcia, Allen Craig, Fernando Salas, Jon Jay, Jason Motte, Mitchell Boggs and Eduardo Sanchez. They're doing something right over there. And obviously Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are both on the cusp. Now this is horses***. This same argument has been made by several of us regarding the White Sox, and you've dismissed it out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) Now this is horses***. This same argument has been made by several of us regarding the White Sox, and you've dismissed it out of hand. It has? I must've missed it. As there is no comparison between the two franchises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) It has? I must've missed it. As there is no comparison between the two franchises. Which is funny, because if you compared the two franchises on August 29, their recent history the last 6-7 seasons has been very, very similar. Of course, what happened over the last two months changes that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 06:15 PM) Which is funny, because if you compared the two franchises on August 29, their recent history the last 6-7 seasons has been very, very similar. Of course, what happened over the last two months changes that. The Cardinals have been in the postseason 5 times, 3 WS appearances and two titles since '04. No comparison. Edited October 31, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 06:24 PM) The Cardinals have been in the postseason 5 times, 3 WS appearances and two titles since '04. No comparison. If you didn't notice, I said before August 29, which doesn't include this year's title. There's obviously no comparison now. I looked at it from 2005-2010, but when you include '04 that does tilt it more in their favor though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 05:34 PM) If you didn't notice, I said before August 29, which doesn't include this year's title. There's obviously no comparison now. I looked at it from 2005-2010, but when you include '04 that does tilt it more in their favor though. Well, since 05', they have won 18 more games than us in a crappier league. That's an average of about 2.57 games better per year. I wouldn't say it's a completely different franchise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 09:58 AM) Another managerial opening?? Good thing the Sox scooped up Ventura when they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) Now this is horses***. This same argument has been made by several of us regarding the White Sox, and you've dismissed it out of hand. This. Come on J4L. It may be improving, but its far from "strong". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Wasn't the Cardinal's minor league system supposedly drained and near the bottom of the league after they traded for Holliday? Edited November 1, 2011 by Leonard Zelig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) The bottom line is they have turned out some players that were not expected to rise so quickly or at all...just as the White Sox have done recently with Santos, Hudson, Sale, Humber, De Aza, Reed, Viciedo, and Lillibridge. You could very well be adding Flowers and Morel to the list shortly. Edited November 1, 2011 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oHrygsiNfc Tony La Russa on a 1980's game show. I hope that he comes back to the Sox. Edited November 1, 2011 by SOXOBAMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Column: Jose Oquendo is the #STLCards' best managerial choice -- esp. if they want to keep Albert Pujols: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...otribune.com%29 Reinsdorf hopes La Russa's next stop is with White Sox Phil Rogers On Baseball 8:17 p.m. CDT, October 31, 2011 Watching Tony La Russa celebrate a World Series championship on Friday in St. Louis, Jerry Reinsdorf was kvelling. That's Yiddish, and means to beam with pride and pleasure, usually reserved for a parent talking about one of his children's achievements. "That was a wonderful feeling," Reinsdorf said Monday. "I think I got as much pleasure from him winning as I would have if (the White Sox) had won. I think so much of the man. I truly love the man. He's just an incredible human being." La Russa, 67, surprised the baseball world by announcing his retirement as the Cardinals' manager. He walks away having won three championships, six pennants, 12 division titles and 2,728 regular-season wins, behind only Connie Mack and John McGraw. If Reinsdorf has his way, La Russa's next stop will be with the White Sox, in a capacity that could range from club president to senior adviser. In a telephone interview, Reinsdorf indicated he expects to offer an unspecified position in his organization to La Russa, who began his managerial career with the Sox in 1979. "I would love to," Reinsdorf said, asked if he wanted to work with La Russa again. "We really haven't discussed it. We've talked off and on about what he might do in the future, but we haven't talked about anything specific. I'm sure now that he's available he's going to get a lot of opportunities, chances to do a lot of things inside the game. I just want him to do what's in his best interest, what's best for him." Reinsdorf has said firing La Russa in 1986 was his biggest mistake in sports. He and La Russa have remained close friends — perhaps partly because Reinsdorf brokered La Russa's move from the White Sox to the Oakland A's — and Reinsdorf said La Russa tipped him off that he was going to retire after the just-completed World Series. La Russa's potential role for the Sox could be to tutor rookie manager Robin Ventura, provide analysis on players and potential moves for general manager Ken Williams and assistant GM Rick Hahn, and to assist with instruction in the farm system. At a news conference to announce his retirement, La Russa answered "no" when asked if he'll ever manage again and said he has no interest in being a general manager. He said he is open to some sort of baseball job in the future. In an 2010 interview with the Tribune during spring training, La Russa said that if he were to stay in baseball after managing, he'd have to do it with an owner he already knows. "It would have to be for an owner like Reinsdorf, the Haas family, the people here (in St. Louis)," La Russa said. "Those are the owners I've known, the ones I'd want to make happy." La Russa worked for Walter Haas in Oakland, but that door seemingly closed when the team was sold in 1995. He could stay in St. Louis, but he always resented Whitey Herzog's influence early in his managerial stay. Would he want to be a Herzog-like figure for the next Cardinals manager? A role with the White Sox seems to make the most sense, especially given how stale management has become heading toward the 12th season of the Ken Williams era. La Russa wants a job that allows him to have an impact without the time-intensive responsibility that comes with running a team. "I don't know if there's anybody out there that would want to have somebody in a role like that," La Russa said. It appears Reinsdorf is that guy. The White Sox chairman was in a reflective mood Monday. He said he made a mistake by not opposing then-general manager Ken Harrelson's desire to fire La Russa after the Sox stumbled out of the gate in 1986. He said he felt he had to support Harrelson, who had moved from the broadcast booth to replace Roland Hemond as GM after the 1985 season. "It was a mistake to keep Hawk and fire Tony," Reinsdorf said. "We could have had Tony all this time. … But the reality is that Tony wasn't very popular then and our organization was going into decline. Our farm system wasn't very good. We weren't going to be good for a while and he is so competitive. I really think I probably did him a favor by firing him." Reinsdorf revealed a little-known reason he and La Russa remained close after his firing. He said he reached out to Athletics President Roy Eisenhardt to help La Russa make a quick transition from one job to the next. He joined the A's only a little more than two weeks after the White Sox fired him, and would take them to three consecutive World Series in 1988-90. "I wouldn't have let Hawk fire him if I didn't know that he was going to land on his feet in Oakland," Reinsdorf said. "I called Roy Eisenhardt and told him what we were going to do. I knew that Roy liked him. As much as I liked Tony, it was easier letting him go knowing that he was going to come out of it in good shape." La Russa certainly did that. The only question remaining is if he'll end his career where it started. [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeFabregas Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Dave Duncan has one year left on his contract, but the Cards are saying the new manager will have complete control over the coaching staff. Hard to imagine that any manager--especially a first time manager--would want to ditch Duncan, but it will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 31, 2011 -> 12:43 PM) All I know is that in the last two years their farm has produced David Freese, Jaime Garcia, Allen Craig, Fernando Salas, Jon Jay, Jason Motte, Mitchell Boggs and Eduardo Sanchez. They're doing something right over there. And obviously Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are both on the cusp. Freese has never put up an OPS+ of more than 120 and hasn't stayed healthy. Very Crede-esque. Craig has 343 career plate appearances and they can't find a place to start him. Oh, and he's 27 next year. Jay is a guy I've never been overly impressed with, but he put up 3 WAR this year so he's been good. Mitchell Boggs is middle reliever, and not a particularly good one at that. Shelby Miller looks good, but TINSTAAPP. Always, forever and ever. That's why you stockpile it. Including Carlos Martinez at this point is similar, though not the same, as including Andre Rienzo on this list. No matter the reason, 30 BB in 46 IP is not good. The White Sox are actually doing about the same; the main difference offensively being that the Sox only have a really good hitter and not a machine as a #3 hitter and that the guys they signed and traded/claimed were monstrous busts while Berkman and Holliday both had great years. It is entirely plausible and reasonable to think that Adam Dunn having a typical Adam Dunn year while Rios bounces back to 2010 form creates anywhere from 9 to 12 wins for the White Sox assuming that Rios can be worth 3.5-4 WAR in CF and Dunn can be worth 3-4 WAR as a DH. That's 6.5-8 WAR on its own, but it replaces a -3.6 WAR that the two put up this year, thus resulting in a 9.1-11.6 WAR difference. That takes the Sox from 79 wins to anywhere from 88-91 wins. The Cards won 90 games. --- I still don't think people fully comprehend simply how bad Rios and Dunn were all year compared to their typical selves, even though they watched them all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Herb Lawrence RT @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Cardinals have asked permission to interview Ryne Sandberg for managerial opening. #MLB #Phillies #Cubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2011 -> 03:06 PM) Herb Lawrence RT @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Cardinals have asked permission to interview Ryne Sandberg for managerial opening. #MLB #Phillies #Cubs What would it take from me to make this happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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