Is Jeff Manto this dumb

[Eminor3rd]

So Jeff Manto's silly little stat -- (R+RBI-HR)/G -- tweaked to account for the fact that a HR earns you both a run and an RBI as opposed to just one or the other -- (R+RBI-(HR*2))/G -- when calculated for last year's team looks something like this:

 

0.815 De Aza

0.797 Pierre

0.766 Ramirez

0.752 Konerko

0.695 Quentin

0.566 Rios

0.560 Beckham

0.543 Pierzynski

0.517 Viciedo

0.516 Morel

0.500 Flowers

0.459 Dunn

0.448 Vizquel

0.423 Lillibridge

0.314 Teahen

 

Now, what have we learned? Absolutely nothing.

 

We've learned that people who bat closer to the top of the lineup get more RBI and R opportunities. Which tells us very little about how well a player performed. Which is why we don't pay attention to formulas like that.

[JorgeFabregas]

So Jeff Manto's silly little stat -- (R+RBI-HR)/G -- tweaked to account for the fact that a HR earns you both a run and an RBI as opposed to just one or the other -- (R+RBI-(HR*2))/G -- when calculated for last year's team looks something like this:

 

0.815 De Aza

0.797 Pierre

0.766 Ramirez

0.752 Konerko

0.695 Quentin

0.566 Rios

0.560 Beckham

0.543 Pierzynski

0.517 Viciedo

0.516 Morel

0.500 Flowers

0.459 Dunn

0.448 Vizquel

0.423 Lillibridge

0.314 Teahen

 

Now, what have we learned? Absolutely nothing.

Not that the formula has any merit, but it already accounted for the homerun's run and rbi thing by subtracting homeruns once. Why are you taking them out a second time? The idea is that when you knock yourself in, then you are only creating one run.

[RockRaines]

I dont think its a system of ranking players in the lineup as much as its ranking a player against himself based on that number. The goal is to maximize each players output based on his production.

[Texsox]

Southsidesox is not a message board, it's a blog. And a damn good one at that.

 

 

Oops, my bad. I was thinking of southsiders.

[chw42]

See, this condescending attitude is what pisses me off about sabr advocates. It's always thumbing your nose at anything that doesn't abide strictly by some incredibly general set of data, despite the fact that there are always scenarios that the data is simply not specific enough to address.

 

I honestly don't see how (Runs + RBI - Home Runs)/Games is useful in player evaluations. Sorry if I think that way...

[chw42]

So Jeff Manto's silly little stat -- (R+RBI-HR)/G -- tweaked to account for the fact that a HR earns you both a run and an RBI as opposed to just one or the other -- (R+RBI-(HR*2))/G -- when calculated for last year's team looks something like this:

 

0.815 De Aza

0.797 Pierre

0.766 Ramirez

0.752 Konerko

0.695 Quentin

0.566 Rios

0.560 Beckham

0.543 Pierzynski

0.517 Viciedo

0.516 Morel

0.500 Flowers

0.459 Dunn

0.448 Vizquel

0.423 Lillibridge

0.314 Teahen

 

Now, what have we learned? Absolutely nothing.

 

Ozzie must have been a fan of this stat too. Look at how good Pierre is!

 

[Kalapse]

Not that the formula has any merit, but it already accounted for the homerun's run and rbi thing by subtracting homeruns once. Why are you taking them out a second time? The idea is that when you knock yourself in, then you are only creating one run.

You are absolutely right, I am an idiot.

 

0.960 Konerko

0.898 Quentin

0.889 De Aza

0.861 Ramirez

0.810 Pierre

0.655 Rios

0.632 Flower

0.627 Beckham

0.605 Pierzynski

0.595 Morel

0.557 Lillibridge

0.552 Viciedo

0.549 Dunn

0.448 Vizquel

0.373 Teahen

 

[chw42]

You are absolutely right, I am an idiot.

 

0.960 Konerko

0.898 Quentin

0.889 De Aza

0.861 Ramirez

0.810 Pierre

0.655 Rios

0.632 Flower

0.627 Beckham

0.605 Pierzynski

0.595 Morel

0.557 Lillibridge

0.552 Viciedo

0.549 Dunn

0.448 Vizquel

0.373 Teahen

 

The thing with simplified stats like these is that they are somewhat accurate in finding the very good players and the really bad ones. But the middle of the pack is far too inconsistent.

Edited November 2, 2011 by chw42

[Rowand44]

That's right Jim Margalus from Sox Machine is running SSS, brain fart.

And he's the best Sox writer out there, professional or otherwise.

[iamshack]

I honestly don't see how (Runs + RBI - Home Runs)/Games is useful in player evaluations. Sorry if I think that way...

I'm not saying you should apologize for however you think. I'm saying sabermeticians don't need to be so snarky about their methods when plenty of times their data has been proven inaccuate/incomplete/inconclusive itself.

[iamshack]

You are absolutely right, I am an idiot.

 

0.960 Konerko

0.898 Quentin

0.889 De Aza

0.861 Ramirez

0.810 Pierre

0.655 Rios

0.632 Flower

0.627 Beckham

0.605 Pierzynski

0.595 Morel

0.557 Lillibridge

0.552 Viciedo

0.549 Dunn

0.448 Vizquel

0.373 Teahen

Now can you divide this by plate appearances or something to account for inequities in that regard?

[Jordan4life_2007]

And he's the best Sox writer out there, professional or otherwise.

Hogwash. Scott Merkin is easily the best. In fact, I can give you the headliner for his next five articles:

 

"Adam Dunn is out to prove the critics wrong; has plenty left in the tank."

 

"Alex Rios to be the next Matt Kemp?"

 

"Jake Peavy's heart and soul finally ready to wreak havoc on AL Central foes."

 

"Gordon Beckham says his spirit is alive and kicking."

 

"Ozzie did it his second year, why not Robin in '12?"

 

[iamshack]

Hogwash. Scott Merkin is easily the best. In fact, I can give you the headliner for his next five articles:

 

"Adam Dunn is out to prove the critics wrong; has plenty left in the tank."

 

"Alex Rios to be the next Matt Kemp?"

 

"Jake Peavy's heart and soul finally ready to wreak havoc on AL Central foes."

 

"Gordon Beckham says his spirit is alive and kicking."

 

"Ozzie did it his second year, why not Robin in '12?"

You forgot "Morel poised to repeat hot September."

[caulfield12]

Santos Vows Revenge on Tigers and Marty34

 

Ventura looks to become first manager to win it all in debut season.

 

Humber, rested and revitalized, looks to build on 2011 success.

 

Chris Sale--Scouts certain he's the "next Randy Johnson"

 

XXXX NOTRE DAME QB WILL WIN 2-3 HEISMAN TROPHIES

 

Jake Peavy throwing 96-97 MPH in offseason workouts.

 

Juan Pierre working with noted track specialist XXXX to get the burst back in his game, will re-sign with Sox for 2 years.

 

Dayan Viciedo declares himself healthy, boldly predicts 30 homers and 100 RBI's, minimum of 10 outfield assists.

 

Alexei Ramirez has added 10-15 pounds of pure muscle, targets 2nd Silver Slugger

 

 

[DirtySox]

Hogwash. Scott Merkin is easily the best. In fact, I can give you the headliner for his next five articles:

 

"Adam Dunn is out to prove the critics wrong; has plenty left in the tank."

 

"Alex Rios to be the next Matt Kemp?"

 

"Jake Peavy's heart and soul finally ready to wreak havoc on AL Central foes."

 

"Gordon Beckham says his spirit is alive and kicking."

 

"Ozzie did it his second year, why not Robin in '12?"

 

Nice.

[Quin]

Hogwash. Scott Merkin is easily the best. In fact, I can give you the headliner for his next five articles:

 

"Adam Dunn is out to prove the critics wrong; has plenty left in the tank."

 

"Alex Rios to be the next Matt Kemp?"

 

"Jake Peavy's heart and soul finally ready to wreak havoc on AL Central foes."

 

"Gordon Beckham says his spirit is alive and kicking."

 

"Ozzie did it his second year, why not Robin in '12?"

 

 

As for on topic, if this means swinging at a first pitch fastball down the middle, I'm for it damnit.

 

[elrockinMT]

I just think that we should go back to the three run homer. We need a couple or three guys that can really hit that long ball. Wait a minute we have them now don't we and they forgot how to hit.

[shago]

Picking and choosing when to be aggressive does not mean abandoning on base percentage. I like what I just read.

Totally agree ... free the Manto

[SoxAce]

Not that the formula has any merit, but it already accounted for the homerun's run and rbi thing by subtracting homeruns once. Why are you taking them out a second time? The idea is that when you knock yourself in, then you are only creating one run.

 

 

You are absolutely right, I am an idiot.

 

0.960 Konerko

0.898 Quentin

0.889 De Aza

0.861 Ramirez

0.810 Pierre

0.655 Rios

0.632 Flower

0.627 Beckham

0.605 Pierzynski

0.595 Morel

0.557 Lillibridge

0.552 Viciedo

0.549 Dunn

0.448 Vizquel

0.373 Teahen

 

 

My god... Very rarely do you see someone prove Kalapse wrong in a post. Might have to bookmark this one boys.

Edited November 4, 2011 by SoxAce

[joeynach]

Jeff Manto was on 670 The Score this morning. I didnt hear the interview, I am hoping they will replay it later, but I heard that one reason he doesnt like walks and OBP is becuase he fears it leads to or sets up the Double play. SERIOUSLY!! If true that is the morst assinine thing I have ever heard and he is an automatic BOOB! Lets see, stressing walks, seeing pitches, and high OBP has the documented effects of more opportunities for the pitcher to make a mistake, throw a wild pitch, tired himself out with high pitch count/extended ABs, more opportunity for the catcher to make an error (past ball), you get more opportunities to see what the pitcher's got, what pitch types, what he is or is not comfortable throwing (benefit for all hitters in lineup), and most importantly you get the opportunity to put yourself in a more desirable pitch count where you may get a better pitch to hit, or be more attune to the type of pitch coming in that pitch count. But nevermind all that, a walk COULD lead to a double play, an event that occurs on average about once a game, or about 10-15 times over a players season AB's. Dude wants to ignore walks/OBP and positive effect from those in an effort to combat a low statistical outcome event. Awful!

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Jeff Manto was on 670 The Score this morning. I didnt hear the interview, I am hoping they will replay it later, but I heard that one reason he doesnt like walks and OBP is becuase he fears it leads to or sets up the Double play. SERIOUSLY!! If true that is the morst assinine thing I have ever heard and he is an automatic BOOB! Lets see, stressing walks, seeing pitches, and high OBP has the documented effects of more opportunities for the pitcher to make a mistake, throw a wild pitch, tired himself out with high pitch count/extended ABs, more opportunity for the catcher to make an error (past ball), you get more opportunities to see what the pitcher's got, what pitch types, what he is or is not comfortable throwing (benefit for all hitters in lineup), and most importantly you get the opportunity to put yourself in a more desirable pitch count where you may get a better pitch to hit, or be more attune to the type of pitch coming in that pitch count. But nevermind all that, a walk COULD lead to a double play, an event that occurs on average about once a game, or about 10-15 times over a players season AB's. Dude wants to ignore walks/OBP and positive effect from those in an effort to combat a low statistical outcome event. Awful!

So, you heard, that maybe, he said something like that. And he's a boob already? Seriously? I'll wait to hear what he actually said, thanks.

 

[LittleHurt05]

Fire Manto!!! SO DUMB

[Balta1701]

Any idea what show he was on? That'd be a podcast worth listening to.

[LittleHurt05]

Any idea what show he was on? That'd be a podcast worth listening to.

 

Mully and Hanley. Here is the link to the podcast.

[NorthSideSox72]

Mully and Hanley. Here is the link to the podcast.

Can't listen right now, but I'd like to hear what he actually said, from someone not working on the 7th grade rumor mill method.