chetkincaid Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 07:59 PM) Honestly, I really don't give a s*** about the Royals, Pirates and what they've done the last two decades. The Sox have been throwing s*** against the wall for half a decade now and here we are. No farm and terrible contracts all over the place. The game was moving in a different direction and the Sox failed to adapt. What the hell is the difference between 65-70 wins and 75-80 wins? What? You were technically "in it" a month longer? Say what you will about the Cubs, but at least they have a plan now. Time will tell if they can execute it. Honestly, I'm afraid if Mark signs here that KW will use that as an excuse to bring back CQ, Danks, etc. I can see it now - "Hey, we didn't bring back Mr. Buehrle to throw in the towel for 2012.' f*** that. The Cardinals barely made it to the playoffs, got hot and won it all. The Sox had the talent to do something similar. It just didn't pan out. I see what you're saying, but still it could have been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) The Cardinals barely made it to the playoffs, got hot and won it all. The Sox had the talent to do something similar. It just didn't pan out. I see what you're saying, but still it could have been done. The Cardinals won 90 games in the regular season. We won 79. It's not even in the same ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 07:49 PM) Until someone can give me a scenario where a team has quickly and successfully rebuilt after a complete tear down, I am considering it to be in the realm of BigFoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and Cubs World Series titles. Braves, Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Good news for the fans that want Buehrle back at any cost... The Nationals offered Wilson six years. If he takes that, and the Marlins don't offer Buehrle a no-trade clause, it could be good for his chances to return. I wonder if Buehrle would then wait out the Pujols/Cardinals saga. If Pujols leaves, then the Cards may do some other stuff to open room for Buehrle. Not likely, but not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:35 PM) Good news for the fans that want Buehrle back at any cost... The Nationals offered Wilson six years. If he takes that, and the Marlins don't offer Buehrle a no-trade clause, it could be good for his chances to return. I wonder if Buehrle would then wait out the Pujols/Cardinals saga. If Pujols leaves, then the Cards may do some other stuff to open room for Buehrle. Not likely, but not impossible. The Rangers are very interested in MB according to recent reports. 6 years to CJ Wilson is quite ridiculous imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:41 PM) The Rangers are very interested in MB according to recent reports. 6 years to CJ Wilson is quite ridiculous imo. Yeah, Rangers may offer him something he can't refuse, but I have to think he would prefer an NL team. If it comes down to the Sox and Rangers offering three year deals, then he'll be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN Mike Rizzo just told me the Nats did not go to 6 years on CJ Wilson 38 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ok, then....back to the Nationals being the front-runners for Buehrle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 07:49 PM) Until someone can give me a scenario where a team has quickly and successfully rebuilt after a complete tear down, I am considering it to be in the realm of BigFoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and Cubs World Series titles. It going to be even harder to do now with the new cba. Well, not for the sox. They would be hard pressed to do it either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 http://t.co/BFYDQFzM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 ChiTribRogers Phil Rogers #Cardinals may not be on sideline much longer with Mark Buehrle ... Source says they are shopping Kyle Lohse to create a spot for him. 3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Joelsherman1 Joel Sherman Execs who have spoken to #Nationals left with impression that they like Buerhle far more than CJ 2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:09 PM) Braves, Atlanta. Never happened. The Braves never sold off everyone at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Marks gonna get mucho phat offers. I think it'd be cool if he wound up in St. Louis. Miami would be cool - here would be cool. Niiiiiice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 10:15 PM) Marks gonna get mucho phat offers. I think it'd be cool if he wound up in St. Louis. Miami would be cool - here would be cool. Niiiiiice. If St. Louis is in it, it's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 02:49 AM) Until someone can give me a scenario where a team has quickly and successfully rebuilt after a complete tear down, I am considering it to be in the realm of BigFoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and Cubs World Series titles. How come nobody in favor of a complete rebuild will address the fact its a non-sequitir to "rebuild" when 2/9 of your order are named Dunn and Rios?? The fact we have them dictates we put rebuilding on hold a while. It is absurd to play those 2 when we are totally rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 07:52 PM) If you paid for 0 tickets in a year where we had a record-setting payroll and appeared to be serious contenders to start the season, then I seriously doubt you'll go to 15-20 games when we suck major balls. Having said that, there's exceptions to every rule. I knew very early in the season that this team was crap with no passion, led by an (intentionally?) inept manager. People on this board will attest to that. I swore I wouldn't pay for another ticket as long as Ozzie was managing. I did go to few games with free tickets, though. And I've been going to a dozen or more games a year since at least the late '90s. So I was going even when they sucked. I'll show up if they are cellar dwellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) The Cardinals barely made it to the playoffs, got hot and won it all. The Sox had the talent to do something similar. It just didn't pan out. I see what you're saying, but still it could have been done. Great, this argument again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) If St. Louis is in it, it's over. Word is that they're looking into a trade to open up a spot in their rotation... wait... was that stated in this thread already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) How come nobody in favor of a complete rebuild will address the fact its a non-sequitir to "rebuild" when 2/9 of your order are named Dunn and Rios?? The fact we have them dictates we put rebuilding on hold a while. It is absurd to play those 2 when we are totally rebuilding. Their salary together is what - 30 million? A rebuild with them on the books is not out of line or absurd in my mind. You forgot Peavy too - maybe because it's the last year of his contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 04:34 AM) Their salary together is what - 30 million? A rebuild with them on the books is not out of line or absurd in my mind. You forgot Peavy too - maybe because it's the last year of his contract? I meant it makes no sense to give daily playing time to those 2 old guys in a rebuilding situation. No sense at all. If we are stuck with them, don't rebuild for a while. Retool. There's a chance Dunn might close his eyes and swing hard enough to hit 30 home runs and drive in 110. And Rios might be interested enough if the team has a good April to hustle into a .280 batting average with 22 homers and 94 ribbies. Playing those 2 guys with all young prospects around them and a horrifically young, bad pitching staff makes no sense. p.s. Add AJ and Paulie to that mix too. Having four veterans like that means in theory you are trying to contend. You don't play those four guys with a rebuilt, horribly young pitching staff and young/unproven additions that we will be acquiring via trade. Edited December 6, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 10:24 PM) I meant it makes no sense to give daily playing time to those 2 old guys in a rebuilding situation. No sense at all. If we are stuck with them, don't rebuild for a while. Retool. There's a chance Dunn might close his eyes and swing hard enough to hit 30 home runs and drive in 110. And Rios might be interested enough if the team has a good April to hustle into a .280 batting average with 22 homers and 94 ribbies. Playing those 2 guys with all young prospects around them and a horrifically young, bad pitching staff makes no sense. Or you could say this.... It makes sense to give daily playing time to many young guys while Rios and Dunn ride out their contracts. You hope that they turn it around at some point and if they do - you trade them. If not, oh well - by the time that the injected youth matures - we'll be primed to pickup a good DH and CF in the free agent market. Hell, by that time - we could draft for those slots now and have a replacement there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 10:14 PM) Never happened. The Braves never sold off everyone at once. And the White Sox trading a pitcher they're likely to lose in FA, an often-injured RF and perhaps a 35-year old reliever is not turning over half the roster. The Braves were getting old and played out after '05. Sure, they didn't strip it down in one offseason. But they did over a 2-3 year period and rebuilt, for the most part, from within. Edited December 6, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 10:26 PM) I knew very early in the season that this team was crap with no passion, led by an (intentionally?) inept manager. People on this board will attest to that. I swore I wouldn't pay for another ticket as long as Ozzie was managing. I did go to few games with free tickets, though. And I've been going to a dozen or more games a year since at least the late '90s. So I was going even when they sucked. I'll show up if they are cellar dwellers. So if they are about .500 but truly suck, you won't go to games. If they just suck and lose 90 games a year, that would motivate you to buy tickets to 15-20 games? You sound like a closet Cubs fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 06:07 AM) So if they are about .500 but truly suck, you won't go to games. If they just suck and lose 90 games a year, that would motivate you to buy tickets to 15-20 games? You sound like a closet Cubs fan. And the point he's trying to make still evades you. Milk, like myself and many others, want to see change. We want to see a new direction. A new method of attack. The imposed method has not worked for this organization. We, because we're big boys and don't react to the word rebuild the way a 5-year old reacts to the so-called boogeyman or the monster hiding under the bed, can tolerate a few down seasons (i.e. still going to games), or to be more specific, 2-3 seasons where we go into April appearing not to have a chance on paper, if you're ultimately working towards something better and sustainable down the road. Edited December 6, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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