southsider2k5 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:38 AM) If he doesn't return to the Sox, I agree that I'd like to see him with the Cards, which is clearly a dream for him. But here's the thing... if the Cards don't have room for him, and the Sox make only a piddly offer... and he has other offers on the table... what choices does he have? He can either retire - while still pretty young and with lots of playing years left - or he can take the best offer. All things equal, or even slightly less than equal, I have zero doubt that Mark would play for the Sox or STL if that is possible. But if its not, while I'll be sad, I can't see how that makes him a hypocrite. And the thing is everyone makes statements like this in their life. Most of us just don't have a microphone and camera in front of our faces when it happens. "I'll never drink again" "I'm never getting married" "I'm never having kids" "I'll quit masturbating tomorrow".... And years later, it all goes out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) I still have no idea why KW decided to pick up Frasor's option if we're blowing things up. Well, for one thing, we may not be blowing things up. In fact, I think it is a lot more likely that Kenny is attempting to get younger and cheaper - a semi-rebuild - while keeping the talent level on the team at least as good as it is right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:38 AM) If he doesn't return to the Sox, I agree that I'd like to see him with the Cards, which is clearly a dream for him. But here's the thing... if the Cards don't have room for him, and the Sox make only a piddly offer... and he has other offers on the table... what choices does he have? He can either retire - while still pretty young and with lots of playing years left - or he can take the best offer. All things equal, or even slightly less than equal, I have zero doubt that Mark would play for the Sox or STL if that is possible. But if its not, while I'll be sad, I can't see how that makes him a hypocrite. Mark Buehrle has mentioned retiring about 10 times a year for the last 5 years. If neither one of his top teams can sign him, then he can retire and make his dream come true at last. If he decides that he wants to continue playing, he can find a team as close to St. Louis as possible that will offer him a fair salary, as he's stated that being close to home and spending time with his family is of the utmost importance to him, and I'm fairly sure he's mentioned that he's made more money than he'll ever need. Those things make him a hypocrite. And while this stuff happens every year in baseball (guys signing anywhere as long as the price is right), the vast majority of those players don't go out of their way to harp on the issues that Buehrle repeatedly does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:43 AM) Mark Buehrle has mentioned retiring about 10 times a year for the last 5 years. If neither one of his top teams can sign him, then he can retire and make his dream come true at last. If he decides that he wants to continue playing, he can find a team as close to St. Louis as possible that will offer him a fair salary, as he's stated that being close to home and spending time with his family is of the utmost importance to him, and I'm fairly sure he's mentioned that he's made more money than he'll ever need. Those things make him a hypocrite. And while this stuff happens every year in baseball (guys signing anywhere as long as the price is right), the vast majority of those players don't go out of their way to harp on the issues that Buehrle repeatedly does. I guess I just don't see it. For one, he's never said "I will never play outside CWS and STL, I'd retire first". Show me where he said that. Second, even if family is important to him, and even if he does want to be in STL or CHI or nearby, if the choice is retirement or still have a job... I can't fault him either way. Why do you think its impossible for it to be true that his family is important to him, AND he wants to keep pitching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Second, even if family is important to him, and even if he does want to be in STL or CHI or nearby, if the choice is retirement or still have a job... I can't fault him either way. He has a job in Chicago for 2012 if he wants it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:50 AM) He has a job in Chicago for 2012 if he wants it. And I'm willing to bet that if the Sox offer is even in the ballpark of what other teams are offering, even if notably below, he'll take it. Problem is, no one knows if that is the case. In fact, indications seem to be its not, at least not at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 And I'm willing to bet that if the Sox offer is even in the ballpark of what other teams are offering, even if notably below, he'll take it. Problem is, no one knows if that is the case. In fact, indications seem to be its not, at least not at this time. You misunderstood what I meant. The Sox offered him arb. He can pitch in Chicago in 2012 for no less than $14M no matter what contract the Sox have or haven't offered him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:28 AM) I've clearly stated my opinion in PHT recently. I think it's a perfect time to let Buehrle walk, but he'll only be proving himself a complete hypocrite if he signs somewhere far from St. Louis for a huge sum of money/years. ... So? Who in the world isn't a hypocrite? Hell, we got one of the biggest ones GM'ing our team right now. The man has pitched his ass off for 10+ years with us, won a ring, and actually took less cash with us during his last pending FA year if you remember when he had a bigger market for pitching hungry teams to stay here. Hey, he had a change of heart. Maybe it was his wife who influenced his decision? We don't know. Can't fault the guy in either case for wanting to cash in for his last big contract. It is entirely in his right to test the waters. If KW didn't have all these huge contracts here, he probably stays (especially with JR adoring him as much as Konerko). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:46 AM) I guess I just don't see it. For one, he's never said "I will never play outside CWS and STL, I'd retire first". Show me where he said that. I can't, as it's something you just made up. I can only go by the dozens of statements he made saying that it's important for him to be close to home, retire sooner rather than later, etc. Second, even if family is important to him, and even if he does want to be in STL or CHI or nearby, if the choice is retirement or still have a job... I can't fault him either way. In most cases that'd be true, but Buehrle is a guy who has spoke of his longing for retirement quite often. Taken with his desire to be close to family and the fact that he's mentioned that he has more than enough money, retirement could make a lot of sense for a guy who can't find a job close to home. Why do you think its impossible for it to be true that his family is important to him, AND he wants to keep pitching? Perhaps Buehrle should have kept his mouth shut a little more. As I've said, this type of thing happens all the time, but most guys don't run their mouths all the time about their desires and then do something completely opposite. I'm sure players might drop a quote or two that can be used against them, but Buehrle did it with regularity. Either way, I can see we're never agreeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:55 AM) ... So? Who in the world isn't a hypocrite? Hell, we got one of the biggest ones GM'ing our team right now. The man has pitched his ass off for 10+ years with us, won a ring, and actually took less cash with us during his last pending FA year if you remember when he had a bigger market for pitching hungry teams to stay here. Hey, he had a change of heart. Maybe it was his wife who influenced his decision? We don't know. Can't fault the guy in either case for wanting to cash in for his last big contract. It is entirely in his right to test the waters. If KW didn't have all these huge contracts here, he probably stays (especially with JR adoring him as much as Konerko). I'm going to say this one last time, and then I'm done. Yes, most people are hypocrites. If I get up in the morning and decide that I'm going for a run that day and tell people how great I am for it, then I don't, I can be considered a hypocrite. Now if I do that on a regular basis, as someone like Buehrle, then I'm a much bigger hypocrite. Edited December 7, 2011 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:43 AM) Mark Buehrle has mentioned retiring about 10 times a year for the last 5 years. If neither one of his top teams can sign him, then he can retire and make his dream come true at last. If he decides that he wants to continue playing, he can find a team as close to St. Louis as possible that will offer him a fair salary, as he's stated that being close to home and spending time with his family is of the utmost importance to him, and I'm fairly sure he's mentioned that he's made more money than he'll ever need. Those things make him a hypocrite. And while this stuff happens every year in baseball (guys signing anywhere as long as the price is right), the vast majority of those players don't go out of their way to harp on the issues that Buehrle repeatedly does. Yes, but clearly that hasnt happened as of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:11 AM) Yes, but clearly that hasnt happened as of yet. I'm sure the Royals would take him, but probably not for the offers he's receiving from bigger markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:29 AM) I'm sure the Royals would take him, but probably not for the offers he's receiving from bigger markets. I'm guessing any team would take him for way below market value. All it takes is for the White Sox or St Louis or any of the teams to give him something close to market value and he's theirs. Obviously that hasnt happened yet, so he hasnt had the chance to take those offers that dont exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN Mark Buehrle has reduced the teams he's going to sign to 3 and decision expected to be made within 24 hours 10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:39 AM) I'm guessing any team would take him for way below market value. All it takes is for the White Sox or St Louis or any of the teams to give him something close to market value and he's theirs. Obviously that hasnt happened yet, so he hasnt had the chance to take those offers that dont exist. And it may yet happen, but I'm sure a team like KC would sign him on the spot if he'd play for like $10 million a season. And he'd have to be fine with it, as money is no object to him, it'd allow him to be close to home, etc. But he's looking for the biggest contract (or slightly below that for possibly two teams) no matter where he has to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:42 AM) And it may yet happen, but I'm sure a team like KC would sign him on the spot if he'd play for like $10 million a season. And he'd have to be fine with it, as money is no object to him, it'd allow him to be close to home, etc. But he's looking for the biggest contract (or slightly below that for possibly two teams) no matter where he has to play. Did they give him an offer yet? I know you are stretching the best you can to make him look like a hypocrite but so far the Sox, St Louis and KC havent offered him dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:46 AM) Did they give him an offer yet? I know you are stretching the best you can to make him look like a hypocrite but so far the Sox, St Louis and KC havent offered him dick. And I'm sure that's because he's driving up his market value. If he were to go to a team and say, "I'll play here for this much", I'm sure they'd do it immediately. I'm just coming up with a scenario where he could be true to his word over many years. I don't have to stretch to make Buehrle out as a hypocrite. He's done that himself in spades. EDIT: I'm stretching to find a way to make him not a hypocrite, actually. Edited December 7, 2011 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) And I'm sure that's because he's driving up his market value. If he were to go to a team and say, "I'll play here for this much", I'm sure they'd do it immediately. I'm just coming up with a scenario where he could be true to his word over many years. I don't have to stretch to make Buehrle out as a hypocrite. He's done that himself in spades. How exactly? Please post his words and we will cross check that with what is happening in the market right now. I know for a FACT that Mark's agent was told initially that the Sox wanted to bring him back and would try to match any offer. He then went out on the market, got 5 offers from teams and the one team he wants to play for balked and told him to kick rocks and there will be no offer. Is it your belief that he should have come back to the Sox and offered to play for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:42 AM) JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN Mark Buehrle has reduced the teams he's going to sign to 3 and decision expected to be made within 24 hours 10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply If it indeed does happen in the next 24 hours, given that the Sox haven't moved enough salary yet, that probably means he is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 11:52 AM) How exactly? Please post his words and we will cross check that with what is happening in the market right now. I know for a FACT that Mark's agent was told initially that the Sox wanted to bring him back and would try to match any offer. He then went out on the market, got 5 offers from teams and the one team he wants to play for balked and told him to kick rocks and there will be no offer. Is it your belief that he should have come back to the Sox and offered to play for free? I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over. No, but he can play for less (actually much less) than "market" value. I'm not going to dig up quotes, but every single year we heard about Buehrle wanting to retire, wanting to be closer to home, having enough money for generations, etc. We have all seen these quotes. I don't care that he's leaving the Sox. Allow me to reiterate that. I don't care if he's on the Sox anymore. We're rebuilding and he'd be a luxury. But if the man takes the biggest contract (going against his statements of having enough money) for the most years (going against his wishes to retire early) in a city much further away (going against his desires to be close to his home), then the man is a hypocrite. "Everybody is a hypocrite". Someone will say that again, I'm sure. It's true. Every person is a hypocrite in some way. But not everyone has a way to broadcast their hypocrisy to the world. And even with those that have that ability, most do not go out of their way to make constant and repeated statements that they go back on. Most players make no qualms about going where the money is, and I understand wanting the most money possible. A lot of them will mention that they want to stick it out with that team, but probably once or twice and usually at a signing conference. Mark Buehrle has gone out of his way to state his desires several times, year after year. And if that doesn't make a hypocrite, then I don't know what one is. Edited December 7, 2011 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 12:01 PM) If it indeed does happen in the next 24 hours, given that the Sox haven't moved enough salary yet, that probably means he is gone. Bucket seem to imply that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Buehrle to the Marlins is my prediction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I get a feeling he's going to sign with Washington.. Hate to see my 2nd all-time fav Sox player move to another team but the Sox needs to turn the page and get younger.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 12:06 PM) I get a feeling he's going to sign with Washington.. Hate to see my 2nd all-time fav Sox player move to another team but the Sox needs to turn the page and get younger.. At least it's the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:06 PM) I get a feeling he's going to sign with Washington.. Hate to see my 2nd all-time fav Sox player move to another team but the Sox needs to turn the page and get younger.. I'd love to see him on the Nationals in coming years. As long as it's not the Cubs, I'm at peace with him leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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