caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Well, a few things we'll never know for sure: 1) If the Marlins would have offered that package without the presence/relationship with Ozzie? 2) If Buehrle would have signed with the Sox had Ozzie stayed (doubtful)? 3) What the best offer would have been from the Cardinals or other teams? Or if he actually would have retired if the Sox/Guillen and Cardinals both weren't options? Edited December 8, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 02:42 AM) Well, a few things we'll never know for sure: 1) If the Marlins would have offered that package without the presence/relationship with Ozzie? 2) If Buehrle would have signed with the Sox had Ozzie stayed (doubtful)? 3) What the best offer would have been from the Cardinals or other teams? Or if he actually would have retired if the Sox/Guillen and Cardinals both weren't options? 1) yes, they did the same for Wilson 2) give me a break, they were never going to match that deal 3) he almost went to the Nationals, so he was never going to retire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Come home to see this thread and it is on page 56. Ugh maybe the athlete I respect the most right now playing for a manager I couldn't have less respect for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Its sad to lose Mark. But this is the natural end. The Sox signing Mark would have been nothing more than an attempt to appease the fan base while they sucked. Who does that really help? I personally believe picking the Marlins was a questionable move but thats mainly because I dont see what the long term model is there. It seems like they are just throwing money around and they already play in a good division. Who knows, I think the Marlins had to significantly overpay to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:58 PM) Its sad to lose Mark. But this is the natural end. The Sox signing Mark would have been nothing more than an attempt to appease the fan base while they sucked. Who does that really help? I personally believe picking the Marlins was a questionable move but thats mainly because I dont see what the long term model is there. It seems like they are just throwing money around and they already play in a good division. Who knows, I think the Marlins had to significantly overpay to get him. Good post! It sucks seeing Buerhle leave. But its obvious we are heading toward a youth movement. Guys like Quentin & Danks will be dealt next. Our only hope for Peavy and Rios is that they have decent first halfs to up their trade value so we can let go of those contracts. Unfortanately i think Dunn is stuck here for likely the remainder of his contract. If JR respects Konerko, i can see him being dealt midway through this year as well. Lets just hope he has a monster 1st half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) Where's Greg Hibbard when needed, haha? This whole thread is ridiculous. Buehrle has said the same types of things that EVERY ATHLETE IN THE HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTS has said about money. It would be the corollary to an athlete saying, "F--- my family, I'm going where the union and my agent tell me to go, for the most years, and the most dollars." Buehrle leaving was the right business decision for the Sox, there's no question about it. It just seems pointless that we kept the likes of Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel on the team for as long as we did...but I guess most of that can probably be blamed on Ozzie, right? Buehrle will always be a favorite...and the lack of reaction is more of a generalized acceptance that our team is returning to the 1985-1989 and 1998-1999 mode of rebuilding and patience. That KW is still around absolutely sucks...when all we can do is hope if things go wrong next year (again) that it's so uncomfortable for Williams that he has no choice but to fall on his own sword. Seriously, it absolutely sucks when you expect that you're more likely to compete for the #1 overall draft pick than first place, and yet you have zero faith the White Sox will actually select the right player. I guess because Ozzie and Mark will be together, that does cause more of an emotional reaction on the part of fans...that he picked Ozzie over the White Sox/KW. Anyone is free to see it that way...but the same thing will happen to the future Marlins as happened to the 1997 and 2003 teams, eventually. I prefer to HOPE that everything that can go wrong won't continue to go wrong forever...otherwise, I won't be watching any baseball games for the next 2-3 seasons, except to watch Dayan Viciedo and Paul Konerko hit. They might as well just send Konerko, Danks, AJ, Thornton, Ramirez, Quentin and Floyd packing. With the possible exception of Ramirez, none of them will be around for when the White Sox are capable of contending again. I do think the fact Buehrle is back with Ozzie does make this whole thing chap my ass a little bit more than it usually would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:15 PM) I do think the fact Buehrle is back with Ozzie does make this whole thing chap my ass a little bit more than it usually would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 02:48 AM) Come home to see this thread and it is on page 56. Ugh maybe the athlete I respect the most right now playing for a manager I couldn't have less respect for. Did you read the interview with Oz in this edition of espn the magazine? I like Oz more and more after reading it. People that say I'm a sugary Sox homer won't have a problem with me this year cause I despise Kenny and definitely will not be defending Robin as he learns on the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 04:17 AM) Did you read the interview with Oz in this edition of espn the magazine? I like Oz more and more after reading it. People that say I'm a sugary Sox homer won't have a problem with me this year cause I despise Kenny and definitely will not be defending Robin as he learns on the job. Wait, so you defend the veteran manager with a bloated payroll but you're ready to jump on Ventura, the rookie manager with a rebuilding squad? I can't wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) Did you read the interview with Oz in this edition of espn the magazine? I like Oz more and more after reading it. People that say I'm a sugary Sox homer won't have a problem with me this year cause I despise Kenny and definitely will not be defending Robin as he learns on the job. people say you're an Oz homer, not a Sox homer. Way to prove them right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) Did you read the interview with Oz in this edition of espn the magazine? I like Oz more and more after reading it. People that say I'm a sugary Sox homer won't have a problem with me this year cause I despise Kenny and definitely will not be defending Robin as he learns on the job. That logic makes perfect sense in your world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) Did you read the interview with Oz in this edition of espn the magazine? I like Oz more and more after reading it. People that say I'm a sugary Sox homer won't have a problem with me this year cause I despise Kenny and definitely will not be defending Robin as he learns on the job. What if he tells the media funny jokes every day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:26 PM) What if he tells the media funny jokes every day? Meaningless unless people are smiling in restaurants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:15 PM) I do think the fact Buehrle is back with Ozzie does make this whole thing chap my ass a little bit more than it usually would. This. QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) Did you read the interview with Oz in this edition of espn the magazine? I like Oz more and more after reading it. People that say I'm a sugary Sox homer won't have a problem with me this year cause I despise Kenny and definitely will not be defending Robin as he learns on the job. You'd like Ozzie more after he finished 0-162 by playing bad players everyday because he showed them they need to earn money. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:25 PM) That logic makes perfect sense in your world QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:26 PM) What if he tells the media funny jokes every day? QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) Meaningless unless people are smiling in restaurants It's OK guys. I asked people in Lawrence. They like Robin. Said Ozzie was a loud mouth piece of s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:33 PM) No Buehrle hasn't at all. That's what was so awesome about him, that he talked about how the money wasn't that important, how he could retire early, how just being close to home and close to family matters. Obviously $58 million quickly changed his opinion about that. Very few athletes talk like Buehrle did though. Most athletes aren't afraid to admit they just want the most money possible in free agency. (There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially since careers can end so quick.) http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/sox-drawer/...43714296662-914 He gave them every chance to keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:44 PM) 1) yes, they did the same for Wilson 2) give me a break, they were never going to match that deal 3) he almost went to the Nationals, so he was never going to retire I mean, the package Buehrle got from the Marlins makes a lot more sense for Wilson. Probably not Buehrle. So just questioning the likelihood of the offer even being made without Ozzie firmly in Mark's corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Actually, you know another thing? Remember how Ozzie upstaged Buehrle's last start as a White Sox pitcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Fantastic article by Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 06:57 PM) 1.) I credit Jerry for having a very nice payroll the last several years. What I'm trying to say (poorly) is I feel (I could be wrong) that at this stage of Jerry's life, with it painfully obvious the team is not going to contend, it is easy for Jerry to revert to his old ways (prior to the Ozzie era) when the Sox were known as a lower payroll team. I feel it's easy for a rich guy like Jerry to say to himself, 'f*** it, we suck anyway, let's just strip the payroll to nothing and do a rebuild.' I should give up, cause I know I'm not explaining it correctly. I will say I'll be stunned if Paulie and AJ are on the team next season. 2.) Well I respect you hearing that. I care. 3.) Dick Allen, I love your posts and it's very very telling that a season ticket holder like yourself is bailing. I think the Cell will be a morgue this season. Ugh, now you're insinuating that Ozzie had something to do with the higher payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:47 PM) Ugh, now you're insinuating that Ozzie had something to do with the higher payroll. Ozzie Guillen is responsible for the 1917 WS win,the Go-Go White Sox, and Frank Thomas being a great hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) If Williams makes another illusion to the ATM being empty, a problem which he's 90% responsible for....good God, how does that guy still have a job? It's bad enough that he's back, but when every comment out of his mouth shows zero respect for the intelligence of the fanbase, you'd have to think Brooks Boyer would highly desire to have him put in a straightjacket by now. And u wonder how many weeks and months it will take to develop any reasonable marketing plan for this organization in the state it's heading into... It's like he lit his own house on fire intentionally (maybe a tactic which should be contemplated for the restaurant) and then he's not acknowledging why the insurance examiners would be pointing their finger in his direction. Edited December 8, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 http://soundcloud.com/cosmroks/mark-buehrle-tribute MB56 tribute... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:40 PM) http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/sox-drawer/...43714296662-914 He gave them every chance to keep him. No, he gave them every chance to give him a counter offer, of which there was no guarantee he would accept. I'm sure he would have accepted a bit of a hometown discount, but exactly how much less? If the Sox could only afford 3/$27, I doubt he stays in Chicago instead of going to Miami. With the recent bad seasons & the Terrible Trio's contracts, I'm not sure the Sox thought they could offer him a fair market offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 10:01 PM) No, he gave them every chance to give him a counter offer, of which there was no guarantee he would accept. I'm sure he would have accepted a bit of a hometown discount, but exactly how much less? If the Sox could only afford 3/$27, I doubt he stays in Chicago instead of going to Miami. With the recent bad seasons & the Terrible Trio's contracts, I'm not sure the Sox thought they could offer him a fair market offer. We know EXACTLY how much. KW said it himself with the ATM comment, $56 million and four years. We would have saved $2 million (hometown discount) compared to what the Marlins were willing to pay him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 03:23 AM) people say you're an Oz homer, not a Sox homer. Way to prove them right. No people say I love Wise, Dye, Jenks, et. all. Not just Oz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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