#Occupythisthread

[StrangeSox]

Thanks for fixing my joke post?

[Y2HH]

"Occupy Atlanta" helps prevent Iraq war veteran from being foreclosed on.

 

These people did something good for someone -- and that's great -- but I see little to no connection to any of these "Occupy" camps. I think calling this "Occupy anything" is disingenuous and attempts to credit an entire movement that deserves no such credit. This was a fringe group of people that did something nice for a small area.

 

Now, if stuff like this became a common occurrence amongst these groups, maybe then we can credit 'Occupy'...and hell, maybe then people would actually get on board with them, because they'd actually be accomplishing something.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

These people did something good for someone -- and that's great -- but I see little to no connection to any of these "Occupy" camps. I think calling this "Occupy anything" is disingenuous and attempts to credit an entire movement that deserves no such credit. This was a fringe group of people that did something nice for a small area.

 

Now, if stuff like this became a common occurrence amongst these groups, maybe then we can credit 'Occupy'...and hell, maybe then people would actually get on board with them, because they'd actually be accomplishing something.

A small group of the protesters does something that looks bad on camera...why that indicts the entire movement.

 

A small group of the protesters does something that looks good on camera, why it's disingenuous to credit the movement for that.

[Y2HH]

A small group of the protesters does something that looks bad on camera...why that indicts the entire movement.

 

A small group of the protesters does something that looks good on camera, why it's disingenuous to credit the movement for that.

 

Um, complete fail.

 

A small group of protestors does something that looks bad on camera? I'm not discrediting them for doing bad stuff, so don't put words in my mouth, but thanks much. I never blamed the entire movement for small fringe groups of them doing something bad. Just like I refuse to blame every police department, or every cop on a police department, because a few of them do something stupid. I blamed them for failing to send any sort of clear message or accomplishing anything tangible.

 

The example SS posted above -- that's accomplishing something tangible -- obstructing traffic, shutting down shipping ports, getting in peoples way, etc...that's not. That's just being a nuisance. If such actions, as cited in his story, were common amongst these 'occupy' camps, maybe then I'd lend some credence to them as a whole for such actions. But as it stands, this isn't something they're actively doing (at least they weren't). It's a one off story that decided to credit an entire movement for something they've never once said they were attempting to accomplish.

 

If they were, maybe they'd actually have a real message.

 

So while I credit the ENTIRE movement for accomplishing nothing other than wasting time, getting in the way, and at best, confusing people as to why they're protesting in the first place, I've never credited the entire movement based on the actions of a few stupid people.

 

You may go directly to jail for completely failing.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

Here's a pretty awesome series of slides explaining exactly how messed up income and wealthy inequality and economic mobility are in this country.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-s...-about-2011-10#

 

There's been a class war going on for decades, and the 1% have won handily.

[Y2HH]

Here's a pretty awesome series of slides explaining exactly how messed up income and wealthy inequality and economic mobility are in this country.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-s...-about-2011-10#

 

There's been a class war going on for decades, and the 1% have won handily.

 

This same interpretation has been written and re-written 5,000 times over now...we get it, the richest of the rich get paid a lot, while the majority do not. It's not like stories like this are new, people have been saying this same thing since the beginning of time, practically. King's used to eat well while their kingdoms starved, too...we aren't talking about royalty anymore, but we may as well be...what's really changed?

 

The problem isn't in that we don't see it, and it isn't in that we don't get the message. It's that there is no fix to be heard of/seen, and nobody bothers writing a story with suggestions to fix it...all they do is rehash what we already know.

 

And that's the problem...how do you fix what may very well be unfixable? The biggest benefit these ultra rich have is if you do try to impose anything upon them...they can get up and leave.

[StrangeSox]

The problem isn't in that we don't see it, and it isn't in that we don't get the message.

 

Many people refuse to acknowledge that it actually is a problem. Media sources like the WSJ and Fox are filled with attempted justifications or explanations for why inequality doesn't exist and why it isn't such a bad thing anyway. See: "job creators", "welfare queens", "poverty is the result of moral failing, wealth is a result of moral goodness," "the 'poor' aren't poor because they have microwaves" etc. rhetoric.

 

It's that there is no fix to be heard of/seen, and nobody bothers writing a story with suggestions to fix it...all they do is rehash what we already know.

 

Smash kkkapital, eat the rich.

 

But more seriously there are fixes in practice in other countries that have significantly lower inequalities and significantly higher social/economic mobility: Stronger social safety nets paid for with higher taxes.

 

edit: I will agree with you that the message in the link itself is not something new. I thought that the series of graphs, packaged together like that, illustrated the point clearly and strongly, however. And considering that the source is a former Wall Street financier, I thought it was worthwhile to post.

Edited December 23, 2011 by StrangeSox

[Balta1701]

But more seriously there are fixes in practice in other countries that have significantly lower inequalities and significantly higher social/economic mobility: Stronger social safety nets paid for with higher taxes.

Much more stringent regulations on the financial industry, including on compensation.

 

Better trade policies/better industrial policies

 

Repairing of publicly held infrastructure.

 

Re-strengthening of worker rights.

[StrangeSox]

Better pollution controls, so that those in poorer neighborhoods typically located near the largest polluters don't suffer serious life-long health and developmental consequences.

[Y2HH]

All great suggestions, but are any of them actually viable when you have to consider the political landscape they'd have to cross to actually happen?

 

The problem is people continue electing rich connected people to make these decisions, enact these laws, etc. They'll bicker about it, point at each other and blame 'the other party' for a few months time, when IMO, they're all in on it together. A few months after their staged on-camera partisan bickering takes place, the masses will forget the argument ever happened, only to have it rehash at a future time, in which they'll once again forget about it a short while later. They'll only fix it if absolutely forced into doing so, in that if a specific area of interest actually collapses, they'll put together some crappy bi-partisan compromise of a fix and then say 'mission accomplished' -- pun intended. Followed by some extravagant parties, deal making and back patting to congratulate themselves because of how awesome they all are.

 

None of this will get fixed until this nation stops electing the 1% to make the decisions that would prevent the 1% from staying the 1%.

 

The problem with that is, the more money you have, the more electable you become.

[Balta1701]

The problem with that is, the more money you have, the more electable you become.

And this is why people gave up and went into the streets.

[Y2HH]

And this is why people gave up and went into the streets.

 

...and when re-election time comes around, these people marching the streets will vote for the same people they would have voted for the last time...and nothing will change!

[StrangeSox]

I'm still caught off-guard when you manage to out-flank me on the cynicism front.

[Y2HH]

I'm still caught off-guard when you manage to out-flank me on the cynicism front.

 

Why for and what exactly do you mean? Care to elaborate a bit so I don't take this out of context?

[StrangeSox]

I like how the danger to the police from the protesters here is so immediate that the policeman calmly steps over the protestors before unleashing the mace.

 

 

And it's nice when the explanation appears laughable based on the video.

 

Here's the UC Davis report on this:

 

http://reynosoreport.ucdavis.edu/reynoso-report.pdf

 

It's not very kind at all to either the administration or the police. Brad Hicks reviews:

 

But before it even came to that point, the student protesters had, with the help of Legal Services, gone over all the relevant state laws, city ordinances, campus ordinances, and campus regulations and concluded that no matter what the Chancellor thought, it was entirely legal for them to set up that camp. When the university’s legal department found out that Chancellor Katehi was going to order the camp removed, they thought they made it clear to her that the students were right.

 

I kept having to stop and slap my forehead over that one repeated phrase in the report: (this person or that) was under the impression she had made it clear that (some order was given), but nobody else present had that impression. Anybody who is “under the impression that they made it clear” that some order was given who who didn’t put it in writing and who hasn’t had that order paraphrased back to them? Should be slapped. Or at the very least demoted. Unless you actually said it, you didn’t “make it clear.”

 

It turns out that it is illegal for anybody to lodge on the campus without permission, but the relevant law only applies to people trying to make it their permanent dwelling. The law prohibits non-students from camping on campus for any reason, but neither student affairs nor the one cop sent to look could find any non-students who were there overnight. A campus regulation says that students can’t set up tents without permission, but that regulation is not enforceable by police, only by academic discipline. Campus legal “thought they made it clear” that the law was on the students’ side, but according to multiple witnesses, what they actually said was “it is unclear that you have legal authority to order the police to do this” and Chancellor Katehi heard that as “well, they didn’t say I don’t have that authority, only that it’s not clear.”

 

Chancellor Katehi, on her part, “thought she made it clear” that when police ordered the students to leave, they were (a) not to wear riot gear into the camp, (b) not to carry weapons of any kind into the camp, © were not to use force of any kind against the students, and (d) were not to make any arrests. But all that anybody else on that conference call heard her say out loud was “I don’t want another situation like they just had at Berkeley,” and Chief Spicuzza interpreted that as “no swinging of clubs.”

 

Chief Spicuzza “thought she made it clear” more than once that no riot gear was to be worn and no clubs or pepper sprayers were to be carried. What Lieutenant Pike said back to her, each time, was, “Well, I hear you say that you don’t want us to, but we’re going to.” And they did, including that now-infamous Mk-9 military-grade riot-control pepper sprayer that he used. Oh, funny thing about that particular model of pepper-sprayer? It’s illegal for California cops to possess or use. It turns out that the relevant law only permits the use of up to Mk-4 pepper sprayers. The consultants were unable to find out who authorized the purchase and carrying, but every cop they asked said, “So what? It’s just like the Mk-4 except that it has a higher capacity.” Uh, no. It’s also much, much higher pressure, and specifically designed not to be sprayed directly at any one person, only at crowds, and only from at least six feet away. The manufacturer says so. The person in charge of training California police in pepper spray says that as far as he knows, no California cop has ever received training, from his office or from the manufacturer, in how to safely use a Mk-9 sprayer, presumably because it’s illegal. But Officer Nameless, when he wrote the action plan for these arrests, included all pepper-spray equipment in the equipment list, both the paint-ball rifle pepper balls and the Mk-9 riot-control sprayers.

 

I want to highlight this from the Kroll Report:

 

1. The decision to mount a police operation to remove the tents. At the time the

operation was mounted (and continuing until the present) it was not clear what

legal authority existed for the campus police to remove the tents and arrest those

who opposed them. Members of the Leadership Team referred to a UC Davis

policy against overnight camping on University property in emails, but no legal

basis for campus police removing tents was stated.

 

Questions regarding the legal authority for campus police to remove tents from

the Quad were raised by UCDPD leadership in calls to Campus Counsel just

hours before the operation was commenced as well as by the activists

themselves, who repeatedly challenged the legal basis of the police operation

before and during the event.

 

The protesters also did not anticipate chemical weapons in response to passive resistance, belying the idea that they intentionally provoked this response:

 

“The police will not use violence – once they march – if you are not violent – they

consider linking arms – as passive resistance – they will only – use chemical

weapons – if you use force – against them – I would encourage – a position of

non-violence.”404

Edited April 20, 2012 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Lt. Pike's pepper-spray victims will be receiving monetary damages from UC-Davis.

 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012...ay-damages.html

[greg775]

Has the occupy movement accomplished anything? Are these people lunatics or OK?

[GoSox05]

Has the occupy movement accomplished anything? Are these people lunatics or OK?

 

A lot of these people are communists. They share a lot of the same views as Leon Trotsky.

 

[Y2HH]

Has the occupy movement accomplished anything? Are these people lunatics or OK?

 

No, they've accomplished nothing, other than costing taxpayers additional money to clean up the messes they've left behind. While I think their original intention was noble, and I'm glad to live in a country where this type of protest is allowed, their message was lost because they lacked organization...and thus lacked a message.

 

Meanwhile, our current government pumped ANOTHER round of "quantitive easing" into the economy by flooding banks with more cash, so they could lend it out to citizens that need it (which they probably won't do). So, in response to the Occupy Movement, our government does what? Gives the rich bankers even more money to play with. Wasn't the entire point of the Occupy Movement supposed to bring focus on the other 99%? So much for that...

 

Our government has no idea what it's doing anymore...and that goes for both sides that make up the vast majority of the whole.

[mr_genius]

Has the occupy movement accomplished anything?

 

no

[StrangeSox]

They got some laws passed to restrict protests.

[greg775]

No, they've accomplished nothing, other than costing taxpayers additional money to clean up the messes they've left behind. While I think their original intention was noble, and I'm glad to live in a country where this type of protest is allowed, their message was lost because they lacked organization...and thus lacked a message.

 

Meanwhile, our current government pumped ANOTHER round of "quantitive easing" into the economy by flooding banks with more cash, so they could lend it out to citizens that need it (which they probably won't do). So, in response to the Occupy Movement, our government does what? Gives the rich bankers even more money to play with. Wasn't the entire point of the Occupy Movement supposed to bring focus on the other 99%? So much for that...

 

Our government has no idea what it's doing anymore...and that goes for both sides that make up the vast majority of the whole.

 

Thanks. I tend to nod in agreement after reading your post.