Happy Bank Transfer Day!

[Texsox]

http://www.facebook.com/Nov.

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19266211

CAPITOLA — Steven Henderson, 45, an airline pilot who lives in Capitola, is tired of Wall Street-owned banks.

“We've been ripped off, and we're still being ripped off,” he said. “It's not just a particular demographic. It's everybody.”

That's why he came out Friday for the “Tour de Bankruptcy” protest in front of four big banks with branches on 41st Avenue.

He joined a handful of protesters outside Wells Fargo. The group stopped at Citibank, Bank of America, and Chase and plans to be at Chase on Ocean Street this morning to promote Bank Transfer Day, a grassroots effort started on Facebook, garnering 44,000 “likes” in two weeks.

Henderson said his girlfriend already has moved her money from Wells Fargo to Bay Federal Credit Union. He plans to bring his kids, ages 12 and 13, to Wells Fargo today so they can close their accounts.

“One thing that's been demonstrated is money talks,” he said.

Santa Cruz Community Credit Union and Bay Federal Credit Unions report new accounts have doubled in the past month.

Nicholas Whitehead, 72, of Live Oak, said he withdrew a four-figure sum from Wells Fargo and deposited it with Santa Cruz Community Credit Union two days ago.

“Banks fund our political system,” said Peter Chamberlin-Klotz, 62, of Santa Cruz, an electrical contractor. “This is something everyone can do.”

[southsider2k5]

Now a practical idea like this where the people who are upset actually do something to change their own behavior, instead of trying to make everyone else pay for theres makes way more sense to me. If you are pissed off at banks, don't stop off at Starbucks and pay for your latte with your debit card on the way to occupywallstreet. If you want everyone else to change, change your own behavior first.

[Texsox]

Now a practical idea like this where the people who are upset actually do something to change their own behavior, instead of trying to make everyone else pay for theres makes way more sense to me. If you are pissed off at banks, don't stop off at Starbucks and pay for your latte with your debit card on the way to occupywallstreet. If you want everyone else to change, change your own behavior first.

 

SS, I agree that we've become a cashless society, more dependent on financial institutions for many transactions, like morning coffee when we had used cash. However, and there is always a however isn't there, I think your comment would have more merit if the banks were proposing a per transaction fee, but from what I am reading it is a flat rate, no matter how often you use the card. Are you suggesting we stop using debit cards and go back to carrying cash for coffee(1) and checks for clothes(2)?

 

Wasn't it the banks that encouraged debit card and ATM use, offered incentives for adopting those options over writing checks or utilizing a teller, and touted how this technology saved banks money in transaction costs?

 

And at the core what is really happening is consumers are looking at costs and moving to institutions that offer these services at a lower cost. We're switching to USAA for our accounts. More services at lower costs. The push was my current bank charging a $10 per month fee just for having an account. In my savings account for example there are two transactions per month, a regularly scheduled transfer from my primary checking on the 15th and a electronic "sweep" from my checking to savings on the 16th or so of "leftover money" from the previous month. According to my bank, those are costly transactions for them to process and for free savings I will need to have a direct deposit instead of a transfer.

 

Because I availed myself of the many programs my bank sent me brochures, emails, and had signs up everywhere like Bill Pay, automatic deposits, etc. it will take me a while to extract myself from my current bank. I'm not certain if drug dealers took marketing and sales lessons from banks or vice versa, but I was hooked on my bank's offerings, now I found a new dealer who offers even more, for less.

 

(1) transactions less than $10

(2) transactions over $10

[Balta1701]

I've been planning to do so once I do one more move. THat's the reason I'm still with the large, national bank that hates me.

[Balta1701]

See, the thing 2k5 doesn't tell you in saying that it's all your fault and not the banks fault is that you're really not actually making a fair decision here.

 

The bank itself has been charging retailers $.40 a transaction per debit card for years. Making them tens of billions a year. But retailers have been forbidden, by law, from passing that cost on to the consumer. The consumer is forbidden from having to make the informed choice because the banks have lobbied to make sure they don't.

 

The Dodd-Frank act cut that amount to about $.22 per transaction. The actual cost of the transaction is something like $.03, so the bank is still making a fortune with every transaction...but because it was cutting into the profits, the banks responded by actually starting to pass on some of the cost to the consumer, and bang! outrage to the point that they dropped the fee completely.

 

The real game is to make it so that the bank wins no matter what. The bank can charge ridiculous debit card fees, but the retailer is forbidden from passing that on to the consumer because of how good the bank's lobbyist is.

 

There's no competition. There's no free market. The game is rigged, and so the consumer is actually forbidden from making a choice.

[southsider2k5]

See, the thing 2k5 doesn't tell you in saying that it's all your fault and not the banks fault is that you're really not actually making a fair decision here.

 

The bank itself has been charging retailers $.40 a transaction per debit card for years. Making them tens of billions a year. But retailers have been forbidden, by law, from passing that cost on to the consumer. The consumer is forbidden from having to make the informed choice because the banks have lobbied to make sure they don't.

 

The Dodd-Frank act cut that amount to about $.22 per transaction. The actual cost of the transaction is something like $.03, so the bank is still making a fortune with every transaction...but because it was cutting into the profits, the banks responded by actually starting to pass on some of the cost to the consumer, and bang! outrage to the point that they dropped the fee completely.

 

The real game is to make it so that the bank wins no matter what. The bank can charge ridiculous debit card fees, but the retailer is forbidden from passing that on to the consumer because of how good the bank's lobbyist is.

 

There's no competition. There's no free market. The game is rigged, and so the consumer is actually forbidden from making a choice.

 

And what Balta won't tell you is that now you are paying more because the Merchants just kept the extra money from the cut, and in most cases you are spending more where the banks have increased other fees to make up for what they, so thanks to Dick Durbans "fix" you are now paying more. Democrats in action.

 

And there is always a free market. Cash.

[Balta1701]

And what Balta won't tell you is that now you are paying more because the Merchants just kept the extra money from the cut, and in most cases you are spending more where the banks have increased other fees to make up for what they, so thanks to Dick Durbans "fix" you are now paying more. Democrats in action.

 

And there is always a free market. Cash.

And of course, if there is such a thing as a free market, if I have a grocery store and I receive back $.20 per debit card purchase, and I decide to pass $.19 on to the consumer, I have no undercut my competitor's price, thanks to basic high school level economics, thus increasing both my profits and my sales.

 

And similarly, if the bank is forced to pass that fee on to the customer, similarly, the customer has the right to decide whether or not to pay that fee. Again, basic free market economics in action...the customer is given the right to determine whether or not the service is worth the cost, the fee is not hidden from the customer by the law.

 

So yeah, Democrat economics = allowing customers to make a choice about what payment method to use. Republican economics in action = every fee hidden behind the scenes but charged to people anyway.

 

It's also illegal to directly charge a higher price to people using credit or debit cards (although you can work around it through various discounts). So again, the "Free market in cash" is highly regulated in favor of debit/credit card fees as well.

[Balta1701]

If consumers cannot see the fees because the law says so, then the fees are not a part of the free market. Customers cannot choose whether or not to pay them.

[southsider2k5]

If consumers cannot see the fees because the law says so, then the fees are not a part of the free market. Customers cannot choose whether or not to pay them.

 

The funny thing is that this is EXACTLY how the SEC forced the trading firms and exchanges to set up their fees. But I guess that is OK because the government did it.

 

And again, if you pay cash, you pay no fees.

[Balta1701]

And again, if you pay cash, you pay no fees.

Except ATM fees to get access to the money or check cashing fees to turn my paycheck into cash.

 

But those fees are transparent. One can decide whether to be charged them or not. Just like any new fees for debit card use.

[southsider2k5]

Except ATM fees to get access to the money or check cashing fees to turn my paycheck into cash.

 

But those fees are transparent. One can decide whether to be charged them or not. Just like any new fees for debit card use.

 

The new and bigger fees that is, and being just like the federal government.

[Y2HH]

And nobody is stopping ANY of you from inconveniencing your lives and going to the f***ing bank -- in person -- and making a cash withdraw so you can carry cash around WITHOUT having to use an ATM or Debit Card and having to pay the fees attached to them. You know, like people used to do before any of this newfangled convenience existed.

 

There are plenty of banks and credit unions that allow you to cash checks/make a withdraw for FREE so long as you have an account with them. The only drawback is you HAVE TO GO THERE, during business hours, in order to do so.

 

Cashless society my ass. It's cashless ONLY out of convenience. A convenience you want to use but by no means are you forced to use.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Y2HH

[Texsox]

And nobody is stopping ANY of you from inconveniencing your lives and going to the f***ing bank -- in person -- and making a cash withdraw so you can carry cash around WITHOUT having to use an ATM or Debit Card and having to pay the fees attached to them. You know, like people used to do before any of this newfangled convenience existed.

 

There are plenty of banks and credit unions that allow you to cash checks/make a withdraw for FREE so long as you have an account with them. The only drawback is you HAVE TO GO THERE, during business hours, in order to do so.

 

Cashless society my ass. It's cashless ONLY out of convenience. A convenience you want to use but by no means are you forced to use.

 

What is so wrong with switching to a bank or credit union with no fees? Funny it was the same banks that promoted the hell out of using the cards.

[Y2HH]

What is so wrong with switching to a bank or credit union with no fees? Funny it was the same banks that promoted the hell out of using the cards.

 

I never said anything was wrong with it.

 

I simply said nobody is FORCED to use ATM's or debit cards, and they aren't. They CHOOSE to do it as to not inconvenience themselves.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Y2HH

[mr_genius]

The banks backed off on charging customers to use debit cards.

[southsider2k5]

The banks backed off on charging customers to use debit cards.

 

They have moved the costs to other places. My bank pretty well axed its points plan, which made us a decent amount of money annually.

[Texsox]

The banks backed off on charging customers to use debit cards.

 

Not all. I am actually more miffed at other fees my banked enacted. Plus I can move to USAA with more services at a better price.

[Balta1701]

Cashless society my ass. It's cashless ONLY out of convenience. A convenience you want to use but by no means are you forced to use.

What an intelligent financial system would realize of course is that having the system be largely cashless is a benefit to both the customer, to the retailer, and to the financial institution. It is much cheaper to do these things electronically at every step than to deal with actual cash.

 

All 3 groups know that. The real difference has been that 1 of those 3 groups had the government on its side, and has used that to enable itself to take advantage of the other 2 by hiding their fees to avoid competition.

[southsider2k5]

What an intelligent financial system would realize of course is that having the system be largely cashless is a benefit to both the customer, to the retailer, and to the financial institution. It is much cheaper to do these things electronically at every step than to deal with actual cash.

 

All 3 groups know that. The real difference has been that 1 of those 3 groups had the government on its side, and has used that to enable itself to take advantage of the other 2 by hiding their fees to avoid competition.

 

Just like the government forces the stock exchanges to do when it collects the fees that the SEC requires it to collect and return to the SEC, but not being allowed to call it the SEC's fee, under threat of prosecution and fine.

[Y2HH]

What an intelligent financial system would realize of course is that having the system be largely cashless is a benefit to both the customer, to the retailer, and to the financial institution. It is much cheaper to do these things electronically at every step than to deal with actual cash.

 

All 3 groups know that. The real difference has been that 1 of those 3 groups had the government on its side, and has used that to enable itself to take advantage of the other 2 by hiding their fees to avoid competition.

 

It's also much MUCH more expensive to deal with the security, both wired and wireless, for POS terminals connected via private leased line (expensive) or internet (also expensive, because they are inherently less secure).

 

It's even more astounding how many of these POS terminals are STILL unsecured, unencrypted, credit/debit card storage devices that are exploited routinely and/or use/store the information improperly. On top of the very expensive security practices required, add in the expansive worldwide fraud that this cashless system has enabled...the fraud on these cashless systems is well clear into the billions.

 

So while it added a LOT of convenience for the regular customer, it also added a lot of convenience for the fraudsters. As cheap as this system should be, it's actually expensive.

[StrangeSox]

And what Balta won't tell you is that now you are paying more because the Merchants just kept the extra money from the cut, and in most cases you are spending more where the banks have increased other fees to make up for what they, so thanks to Dick Durbans "fix" you are now paying more. Democrats in action.

 

And there is always a free market. Cash.

 

The banks are pulling back after the "durbin tax!!!!" meme fell flat on its face and customers saw straight through the banks' bulls***. The idea that this is somehow Durbin's/Democrats' fault because they forced hidden fees out into the open is ridiculous.

 

edit: but to your later point, I have no doubt that they will find new ways to extract large amounts of wealth from the economy for an elite few.

Edited November 6, 2011 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

The banks are pulling back after the "durbin tax!!!!" meme fell flat on its face and customers saw straight through the banks' bulls***. The idea that this is somehow Durbin's/Democrats' fault because they forced hidden fees out into the open is ridiculous.

 

edit: but to your later point, I have no doubt that they will find new ways to extract large amounts of wealth from the economy for an elite few.

 

It is the Durbin tax because everyone except Dick said that the consumers would end up paying more in the end, because the merchants would just pocket the difference and banks would just increase their prices somewhere else to match what they were making.

[Balta1701]

It is the Durbin tax because everyone except Dick said that the consumers would end up paying more in the end, because the merchants would just pocket the difference and banks would just increase their prices somewhere else to match what they were making.

So Dick Durbin is the only one who understands basic economics and competition between businesses? Or dick Durbin is the only one who doesn't realize that the entire country has become a bunch of corrupt monopolies where competition no longer has any impact on prices?

[StrangeSox]

What matters is that it's Dick Durbin's fault that these fees are now nominally transparent and that this is a bad thing (even though the "$5 a month Durbin tax!" idea has already crumbled).

[mr_genius]

Not all. I am actually more miffed at other fees my banked enacted. Plus I can move to USAA with more services at a better price.

 

i'll have to wait and see what fees they implement. staying with my bank for now. they have never done me wrong.