StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) Again, I'm not condoning anything that was done, but the degree of outrage towards Joe Paterno right now is simply out of control right now because everyone is fixated on the hero getting slayed in public...if this happened on the campus of Montana State or something, it would be a story for 3 days and then we would all forget about it. And yet the kids who were the victims of it would still be just as real. That coaches of a prominent NCAA DI Football team who have been media figures for decades and are now wrapped up in a child sexual abuse charge would receive large amounts of coverage in the sports press is not surprising, nor does it serve as an excuse for their (in)actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:46 PM) He met his minimum legal obligations and did nothing else. Nothing called for him to do anything else at the time. Yeah, you could go out there and possibly sever somebody's reputation for life based off of second-hand information. He didn't go that route. And I don't think he should be demonized for that. We all on the internet like to act big and bad and "this is what I would've done" and talk tough or whatever. Not tha vanilla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:52 PM) Thank you, too! I don't know what is so f***ing hard to understand. Motherf***ing Devil's advocates. I'm not being a devil's advocate, it was my impression of the coverage all day yesterday morning. And don't mistake what I've been typing - I've not accused anyone of the people posting in this thread of blaming Paterno for molestation. I'm merely pointing out the disingenuousness of the sports radio mouthpieces and the tv talk shows. I don't care if they want to sell their souls for the sake of money, but the story is almost entirely about Joe Paterno now, and to a far lesser degree about Sandusky. That's the problem I have with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 More Links (not ESPN) http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/n...son.html?src=tp http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/the...on_paterno.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Then I guess we should be happy that it happened under Paterno, as otherwise it would get swept under the rug and perhaps go unresolved. The fact that Joe Paterno is involved is attracting a media frenzy that will ultimately lead to justice. I don't think that's fair. If this happened at Montana State, I'd think that there would still be criminal charges, coaches and AD's would still be shown the door, etc. This is only getting media attention after the GJ indictment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:53 PM) I don't care about Cowherd or ESPN. I care about what's being discussed itt and maybe some of the links others have posted. And I didn't say I thought you would misinterpret the story. Why should any media be allowed to distort the story so much? Do you not interact with other human beings and realize how little people in our society actually understand or remember of news stories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) I'm not being a devil's advocate, it was my impression of the coverage all day yesterday morning. And don't mistake what I've been typing - I've not accused anyone of the people posting in this thread of blaming Paterno for molestation. I'm merely pointing out the disingenuousness of the sports radio mouthpieces and the tv talk shows. I don't care if they want to sell their souls for the sake of money, but the story is almost entirely about Joe Paterno now, and to a far lesser degree about Sandusky. That's the problem I have with it. Welcome to the world of professional media and NCAA sports. If its a prominent program with a figurehead involved its going to be blown up regardless of the actual facts. I would stay away from anything sports related reporting this story. I am actually most interested in local news from Penn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) I don't think that's fair. If this happened at Montana State, I'd think that there would still be criminal charges, coaches and AD's would still be shown the door, etc. This is only getting media attention after the GJ indictment. If this happened at "Insert your random school here", there probably would be no hesitation on the part of the university to clean house. There'd be no "Resign at the end of the year". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) Nothing called for him to do anything else at the time. Yeah, you could go out there and possibly sever somebody's reputation for life based off of second-hand information. He didn't go that route. And I don't think he should be demonized for that. We all on the internet like to act big and bad and "this is what I would've done" and talk tough or whatever. Not tha vanilla. You'd probably be the defense attorney's ideal candidate to be on a jury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) Well, he forced Sandusky into retirement after he first heard about it, and then still let the guy have access to both kids and his facilities for another 3-4 years before hearing about it again and finally banning Sandusky from having kids on campus (which he still did). That to me says he knew about it and basically said its ok as long as its not on campus and you arent a PSU employee. The Grad student met with Paterno at his house and told him what he saw and nobody picked up the phone and called 911 or child services or anything. Wouldnt you expect more from the most powerful man in State College? If that is considered "doing enough" then I dont know what has happened to people. What I read was this was from 2002 and Sandusky retired in 1999. Shouldn't the eye witness be the one to call police? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) Nothing called for him to do anything else at the time. Legally, no. (I know Rock disagrees). Yeah, you could go out there and possibly sever somebody's reputation for life based off of second-hand information. You could follow up on very serious allegations of child rape from someone you've coached and now work with. He didn't go that route. And I don't think he should be demonized for that. We all on the internet like to act big and bad and "this is what I would've done" and talk tough or whatever. Not tha vanilla. There's no "tough talk" in saying that he should have made sure this issue was taken seriously. He absolutely should be demonized for allowing a child molester to go unpunished and uninvestigated for years, leading to abuse of more victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:55 PM) Last I checked none of us were on the radio. So what does that have to do with this thread and our discussion? And I'm familiar with a figurehead getting blasted by the media regardless of the facts in a situation. However in this situation and on this board, I think we have taken into account the facts and the different amounts of blame that need to go around. Thats why I think 90 percent of the people on this boards have the position that they need to clean house entirely. Well maybe if you read my posts you would see I haven't accused anyone here of being a member of the media or being on the radio. I guess now we can only commentate on things that other members of the site have said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:58 PM) If this happened at "Insert your random school here", there probably would be no hesitation on the part of the university to clean house. There'd be no "Resign at the end of the year". I almost added in a lengthy thought on that but didn't feel like typing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) I'm not being a devil's advocate, it was my impression of the coverage all day yesterday morning. And don't mistake what I've been typing - I've not accused anyone of the people posting in this thread of blaming Paterno for molestation. I'm merely pointing out the disingenuousness of the sports radio mouthpieces and the tv talk shows. I don't care if they want to sell their souls for the sake of money, but the story is almost entirely about Joe Paterno now, and to a far lesser degree about Sandusky. That's the problem I have with it. And that's a legitimate problem to have. But when you think about it, having it be about Paterno in the media is going to cause real change to be done and justice to be served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) What I read was this was from 2002 and Sandusky retired in 1999. Shouldn't the eye witness be the one to call police? He was first formally investigated internally in 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:58 PM) If this happened at "Insert your random school here", there probably would be no hesitation on the part of the university to clean house. There'd be no "Resign at the end of the year". Unless it was a Catholic School. Sorry, couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) Legally, no. (I know Rock disagrees). Technically Pennsylvania Law disagrees depending on if you think he was given actual information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) What I read was this was from 2002 and Sandusky retired in 1999. Shouldn't the eye witness be the one to call police? Sandusky was forced to retire after an investigation into accusations that he...molested young boys. He was still allowed around the team and still was frequently seen interacting with young boys. Yes, again, McQueary is a bigger failure here than Paterno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) I don't think that's fair. If this happened at Montana State, I'd think that there would still be criminal charges, coaches and AD's would still be shown the door, etc. This is only getting media attention after the GJ indictment. The point I am trying to make, that is being incredibly misunderstood, is that the media will trip over themselves as to who can articulate how sad this is for the victims, and then immediately switch gears and make this as much about Joe Paterno and Penn State as possible, so as to blow up the story for their own benefit. And yet, the kids this happened to are just as real anywhere as those that it happened to at Penn State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:01 PM) Technically Pennsylvania Law disagrees depending on if you think he was given actual information. I simply don't know enough (read: nothing) about Penn. reporting laws to make an accurate judgement, and that's not something I've seen in the articles I've read. I'm not saying I think you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:58 PM) If this happened at "Insert your random school here", there probably would be no hesitation on the part of the university to clean house. There'd be no "Resign at the end of the year". Tough to say really. You would think the nature of the crimes would make this definitely happen no matter where the location but you never know. These guys have been covering this up for so long they may believe the lies themselves. s***, McQueary's (the GA) letter to football prospects points to a scandal-free environment. This was a guy who witnessed first hand the actual scandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) Legally, no. (I know Rock disagrees). You could follow up on very serious allegations of child rape from someone you've coached and now work with. There's no "tough talk" in saying that he should have made sure this issue was taken seriously. He absolutely should be demonized for allowing a child molester to go unpunished and uninvestigated for years, leading to abuse of more victims. Again, too trusting? Naive? Maybe a little denial? Certainly. Other than that, no. Joe Paterno is not on my top 10 list for most hated human being on the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) I simply don't know enough (read: nothing) about Penn. reporting laws to make an accurate judgement, and that's not something I've seen in the articles I've read. I'm not saying I think you're wrong. From NYT "Despite a powerful eyewitness statement about the sexual assault of a child, this incident was not reported to any law enforcement or child protective agency, as required by Pennsylvania law," Kelly said. "Additionally, there is no indication that anyone from the university ever attempted to learn the identity of the child who was sexually assaulted on their campus or made any follow-up effort to obtain more information from the person who witnessed the attack first-hand." CNN now reporting there have been a dozen or so additional allegations filed with the tip line offered by police. We'll see how legit those are. Edited November 9, 2011 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:02 PM) The point I am trying to make, that is being incredibly misunderstood, is that the media will trip over themselves as to who can articulate how sad this is for the victims, and then immediately switch gears and make this as much about Joe Paterno and Penn State as possible, so as to blow up the story for their own benefit. And yet, the kids this happened to are just as real anywhere as those that it happened to at Penn State. Ok, you won't get disagreement from me on that point. But this is a distinctly different point from Paterno's inactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 What the hell is a "powerful" eyewitness.? lol. Did you see it happen or not? Again, the media doing what they do best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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