Penn State horror story

[Texsox]

Holy s***, guy. Does your contrarian facade know no end?

 

 

I have been consistent since the story broke. There was a f***ing eye witness that didn't go right then and there to the police. He went home and called his daddy. From the story, it seems if daddy said to be quiet, he might not have even told Paterno. Yeah that guy should burn in hell. Sandusky's wife heard kids being abused and did nothing. She should be holding the first guy's hand. They had direct, first hand knowledge.

 

Paterno did too little, but there were others who did far less and had more direct knowledge. There are others that had the positions of authority to actually do something, and they did less. ESPN hides behind being journalists, and did less.

 

At least the two guys at Penn State were charged.

 

Yet the football coach gets the headlines and conversations.

 

To forgive Paterno and make him out to be perfect and having done nothing wrong, is just not right.

To believe that his wins as a football coach and celebrity makes him more accountable than you or I is wrong. We all have an equal moral resposibility to report this. No one should get a pass because they told someone more famous.

[Balta1701]

No one should get a pass because they told someone more famous.

So why do you give Joe Paterno a pass?

[Texsox]

So why do you give Joe Paterno a pass?

 

I can play this game with you.

 

Why do you believe he should have been sent to South America and made to live in a mud hut?

[Balta1701]

I can play this game with you.

 

Why do you believe he should have been sent to South America and made to live in a mud hut?

Because children were raped and it never could have happened had he not been willing to look the other way.

 

So why does he deserve a pass?

[Texsox]

Because children were raped and it never could have happened had he not been willing to look the other way.

 

So why does he deserve a pass?

 

 

He doesn't deserve a pass and I never said that. But that isn't how you like to discuss stuff. You like to twist s*** and make up stuff.

 

I have consistently said that others DESERVE MORE OF THE BLAME. And those individuals that were eyewitnesses and ear witnesses to the abuse have received far less of the public scorn and attacks than Paterno. That seems lopsided.

 

Where have I ever said he deserves a pass? But you will make up statements like that.

 

So why do you think his wife should be given a pass even though she was home when the abuse happened and heard it?

 

Why do you think the eye witnesses deserve a pass?

[Balta1701]

Why do you think the eye witnesses deserve a pass?

When has anyone rose up to defend any of them and said that they were treated unfairly as you have done consistently with Joe Paterno?

[StrangeSox]

He doesn't deserve a pass and I never said that. But that isn't how you like to discuss stuff. You like to twist s*** and make up stuff.

 

I have consistently said that others DESERVE MORE OF THE BLAME. And those individuals that were eyewitnesses and ear witnesses to the abuse have received far less of the public scorn and attacks than Paterno. That seems lopsided.

 

Where have I ever said he deserves a pass? But you will make up statements like that.

 

So why do you think his wife should be given a pass even though she was home when the abuse happened and heard it?

 

Why do you think the eye witnesses deserve a pass?

 

For the nth time, celebrity status matters. That someone who is really famous will get most of the attention is trivially obvious. That this starts a cycle of denouncement-apologistics-denouncement is also expected.

[StrangeSox]

When has anyone rose up to defend any of them and said that they were treated unfairly as you have done consistently with Joe Paterno?

 

We should be talking a lot more about the people nobody knows instead of the guy everyone knows and who a bunch of people insist on defending because he was a good football coach.

[Balta1701]

We should be talking a lot more about the people nobody knows instead of the guy everyone knows and who a bunch of people insist on defending because he was a good football coach.

I'm sure the state of Pennsylvania will lower its flags to half mast when those 2 pass away, right? After all, we have to treat them as poorly as Paterno was treated.

[Milkman delivers]

He doesn't deserve a pass and I never said that. But that isn't how you like to discuss stuff. You like to twist s*** and make up stuff.

 

I have consistently said that others DESERVE MORE OF THE BLAME. And those individuals that were eyewitnesses and ear witnesses to the abuse have received far less of the public scorn and attacks than Paterno. That seems lopsided.

 

Where have I ever said he deserves a pass? But you will make up statements like that.

 

So why do you think his wife should be given a pass even though she was home when the abuse happened and heard it?

 

Why do you think the eye witnesses deserve a pass?

 

You and badger are pulling the same s***, making up the argument that people don't believe that others are also at fault and deserve to be shunned/jailed.

[Soxbadger]

Is there some reason people keeping referring to me?

 

Its pretty annoying, especially when the statements are not even close to true. In my opinion, most people did not care to really discuss what was going on, which was evidenced by my posts in November and my increasing frustration with the seeming lack of interest in who else committed crimes.

 

Bottom line, believe whatever you want, Ive read all 68 pages numerous times, and its pretty clear that only a few people really cared to look further into this.If you think you were one of them, great, double thumbs up. I really dont care, the only reason I started posting in this thread was because people did not really understand what the Grand Jury Indictment was.

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

Is there some reason people keeping referring to me?

 

Its pretty annoying, especially when the statements are not even close to true. In my opinion, most people did not care to really discuss what was going on, which was evidenced by my posts in November and my increasing frustration with the seeming lack of interest in who else committed crimes.

 

Bottom line, believe whatever you want, Ive read all 68 pages numerous times, and its pretty clear that only a few people really cared to look further into this.If you think you were one of them, great, double thumbs up. I really dont care, the only reason I started posting in this thread was because people did not really understand what the Grand Jury Indictment was.

 

You and badger are pulling the same s***, making up the argument that people don't believe that others are also at fault and deserve to be shunned/jailed.

 

No Steve, lets set the record straight. While you were busy believing that Paterno was the most powerful man in Pennsylvania and that it was all Paterno, I was the only one saying that there was no way it was just Paterno, and that Paterno was being used as a scapegoat to cover up for more powerful people.

 

Lets start at the beginning, in early November, I was already saying that it was Penn State, not Paterno.

[Soxbadger]

And I already addressed that statement was merely:

 

The rest was just window dressing, my comment was entirely about Steve's post and how completely distorted it is.

 

It was hyperbole, maybe 10% were saying it, maybe 50% were saying it, it didnt matter to the point of the post. The point was, that I from the beginning said that it was likely a cover up that went above Joe Paterno.

 

If everyone in this thread now wants to agree with that, so be it. But if you go back through my posts, you will constantly see that I do nothing more than respond to other people, who continually are arguing with me. It stands to reason if they are arguing against me, that they disagree with my point. Since I can only recall a handful of people agreeing with me, it is logical that the most disagreed.

 

Maybe thats wrong, and people were arguing with me because they agreed with me, either way, I dont care.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Soxbadger

[DrunkBomber]

And I already addressed that statement was merely:

 

 

 

It was hyperbole, maybe 10% were saying it, maybe 50% were saying it, it didnt matter to the point of the post. The point was, that I from the beginning said that it was likely a cover up that went above Joe Paterno.

 

If everyone in this thread now wants to agree with that, so be it. But if you go back through my posts, you will constantly see that I do nothing more than respond to other people, who continually are arguing with me. It stands to reason if they are arguing against me, that they disagree with my point. Since I can only recall a handful of people agreeing with me, it is logical that the most disagreed.

 

Maybe thats wrong, and people were arguing with me because they agreed with me, either way, I dont care.

Can you find some examples of people arguing that Paterno should be the only one receiving blame or that he is the most guilty party here? You blatantly keep avoiding the most obvious point everyone is trying to make. EVERYONE realizes that there are people much more at fault here then Paterno. People arent saying there is no cover up and that this all starts and finishes with Paterno. The point you are trying to drive home by quoting yourself from November so you can try to say I told you all so is hilarious. Your entire argument is predicated on something that is so painfully obvious to everyone that there is no need to even debate it. Everyone knows that there are multiple people at fault here and that there is more than likely a cover up that stems past Paterno. A lot of the outrage in this thread is due to things like flags being drawn to half staff and a halo being put over JoePas head.

 

Right now Im going to proclaim that the sky is blue because I dont see anyone else talking about it. In a few months you should all fully expect to see me quote this so I can say I told you all and prove how smart I think I am.

[Balta1701]

And I already addressed that statement was merely:

 

 

 

It was hyperbole, maybe 10% were saying it, maybe 50% were saying it, it didnt matter to the point of the post. The point was, that I from the beginning said that it was likely a cover up that went above Joe Paterno.

 

If everyone in this thread now wants to agree with that, so be it. But if you go back through my posts, you will constantly see that I do nothing more than respond to other people, who continually are arguing with me. It stands to reason if they are arguing against me, that they disagree with my point. Since I can only recall a handful of people agreeing with me, it is logical that the most disagreed.

 

Maybe thats wrong, and people were arguing with me because they agreed with me, either way, I dont care.

What you're missing is tht there was no one above Joe Paterno. In a legal sense yes there was and those guys are deservedly facing charges. But those guys would not touch that program without Joes permission.

[Soxbadger]

Drunkbomber.

 

Points up.

 

there was no one above Joe Paterno.

 

Right now, someone is saying that there is no one above Joe Paterno in the state of Pennsylvania.

 

Think about that, no one in the entire state of Pennsylvania.

 

Still to this moment, people are arguing that this cover up was perpetrated by Joe Paterno.

 

There is your proof.

 

Or here is Milkman

 

So wait, you're saying that the entire school or BOT is at fault there? Because I'd have to say that's incorrect. I seriously doubt very few people on the BOT knew about the allegations. It sounds like the buck got passed from McQueary to Paterno, and then from Paterno to Curley to Schultz. That seems to be about it.

 

Once again, people saying that this cover up was merely 3 PEOPLE.

 

And my response:

 

Milkman,

 

Its pretty improbable that the BOT was in the dark about such a serious situation. Especially when people like Paterno start getting summoned to grand juries. They at least knew about it while the investigation was going on, so if they knew Paterno did not report it to the police 5 months ago, a year ago, 9 years ago, why are they only firing him now?

 

The answer is because they want to diffuse the situation and most people are going to be satisfied with the sacrificial lamb, Paterno. No one at PSU wants the real question to be asked, How did you let this happen. How could Penn State not know what is going on, how could they have so little control that they dont even know about an ex coach raping kids in a locker room.

 

That is what should be the most troublesome. That all of these incidents occurred and PSU is basically taking the position only 3 people knew. That just cant be.

 

So the very person attacking me (MilkMan) was one of the people who was saying that there was nothing else to see here. While I was saying

 

That is what should be the most troublesome. That all of these incidents occurred and PSU is basically taking the position only 3 people knew. That just cant be.

 

 

 

Do you need more evidence?

 

Or is that enough to satisfy this nonsense, because Ive only gotten through November 10.

 

(edit)

 

And quite frankly I cant believe how civil Ive been in this thread when numerous times Milkman took pot shots at me.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Milkman delivers]

And I already addressed that statement was merely:

 

 

 

It was hyperbole, maybe 10% were saying it, maybe 50% were saying it, it didnt matter to the point of the post. The point was, that I from the beginning said that it was likely a cover up that went above Joe Paterno.

 

If everyone in this thread now wants to agree with that, so be it. But if you go back through my posts, you will constantly see that I do nothing more than respond to other people, who continually are arguing with me. It stands to reason if they are arguing against me, that they disagree with my point. Since I can only recall a handful of people agreeing with me, it is logical that the most disagreed.

 

Maybe thats wrong, and people were arguing with me because they agreed with me, either way, I dont care.

 

People were thinking that it was a cover up from the very beginning. And the part that you disagree with is the "above Joe Paterno" part. We all think it was a cover up that involved Spanier/Schultz/etc., but while their positions are literally above Paterno, nobody was "above" Paterno. That's the key difference, and I don't think it even needs to be argued any further

[Milkman delivers]

What you're missing is tht there was no one above Joe Paterno. In a legal sense yes there was and those guys are deservedly facing charges. But those guys would not touch that program without Joes permission.

 

Beat me to it.

[Soxbadger]

Drunkbomber.

 

Points up.

 

but while their positions are literally above Paterno, nobody was "above" Paterno.

 

Still to this moment, people believe that Joe Paterno had the ability to cover this up. Paterno was not the most powerful man in the state of Pennsylvania, my guess is that there are even a few people in the Govt. who dont like PSU, maybe they went to Pitt, Temple or Penn.

 

The Governor in 1998 was Tom Ridge, who I assume was also more powerful than Joe Paterno.

[Milkman delivers]

Drunkbomber.

 

Points up.

 

 

 

Right now, someone is saying that there is no one above Joe Paterno in the state of Pennsylvania.

 

Think about that, no one in the entire state of Pennsylvania.

 

Still to this moment, people are arguing that this cover up was perpetrated by Joe Paterno.

 

There is your proof.

 

Or here is Milkman

 

 

 

Once again, people saying that this cover up was merely 3 PEOPLE.

 

And my response:

 

 

 

So the very person attacking me (MilkMan) was one of the people who was saying that there was nothing else to see here. While I was saying

 

That is what should be the most troublesome. That all of these incidents occurred and PSU is basically taking the position only 3 people knew. That just cant be.

 

 

 

Do you need more evidence?

 

Or is that enough to satisfy this nonsense, because Ive only gotten through November 10.

 

(edit)

 

And quite frankly I cant believe how civil Ive been in this thread when numerous times Milkman took pot shots at me.

 

First of all, nobody is saying that Paterno is the highest person in the entire state, just at the school. And I stick with the statement that "the entire school or BOT is at fault there" is incorrect. I seriously doubt that every member of the board, perhaps none, were aware of it at the time. And when I said that it "seems" to be only McQueary, Paterno, Curley, and Schultz, well I don't see how that's very far from the truth. It's possible that the cover up was orchestrated by those few and couple of policemen. A cover up doesn't have to be all-encompassing. A few higher-ups can successfully perpetrate it.

[Milkman delivers]

Drunkbomber.

 

Points up.

 

but while their positions are literally above Paterno, nobody was "above" Paterno.

 

Still to this moment, people believe that Joe Paterno had the ability to cover this up. Paterno was not the most powerful man in the state of Pennsylvania, my guess is that there are even a few people in the Govt. who dont like PSU, maybe they went to Pitt, Temple or Penn.

 

The Governor in 1998 was Tom Ridge, who I assume was also more powerful than Joe Paterno.

 

Oh, that fake argument again.

[Soxbadger]

If you clarified, maybe Id have understood that you meant only at PSU, and then I could have explained that I still believe that the cover up went beyond PSU.

 

(edit)

 

Some was entirely unnecessary and was just frustration because I seriously was not coming here to make fake arguments, so I apologize for the post, I just needed to get that out in the moment.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Balta1701]

When it involved penn state, and especially the football program, you're right, he was the most powerful person in that state. The governor can't touch a program like that. As long as he's winning, no one would bother them with anything.

[Soxbadger]

See Milkman, some people actually believe Paterno was the most powerful person in the state.

 

So I thought you believed that too.

[Milkman delivers]

See Milkman, some people actually believe Paterno was the most powerful person in the state.

 

So I thought you believed that too.

 

First of all, I'm not attacking you. I just brought up people creating straw man arguments and happened to use one of your quotes.

 

Secondly, I thought it was common sense that I meant Paterno was the most powerful person at the college, not the state. I can't speak for Balta. That part seems a little ridiculous to me as well.