Texsox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 12:03 PM) Tex, You're a teacher, and as a teacher, you have certain responsibilities to report any child abuse. That's your legal obligation. If you report that abuse to your principal, are you done? Would you wash your hands of the matter and say "well, I told my boss, that's all I can do?" Wouldn't you follow up on the matter, making attempts to ensure that the situation was being taken seriously? If I see somebody doing something grossly incompetent in my line of work (engineering), it is not enough simply to tell my boss and then walk away. Not legally, and not morally. If you see a serious problem, you need to stand up and make sure that it is resolved before someone gets hurt. Are you asking me if another teacher told me they witnessed something, I would remind them of their legal resposnibility. Remember the GA called his dad that night and his dad told him to tell Paterno. Even his dad didn't call the police. Now should his dad lose his job also? He dad knew about it well before Paterno? And I would call Child Protective Services and the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:04 PM) Again, too trusting? Naive? Maybe a little denial? Certainly. Other than that, no. Joe Paterno is not on my top 10 list for most hated human being on the planet. Those are all excuses for moral failing. They're not actual justifications for it. And, yet again, for probably the hundredth time, Paterno is at the bottom of the list of "people who did terrible things" in this scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) What the hell is a "powerful" eyewitness.? lol. Did you see it happen or not? Again, the media doing what they do best. They are referring to the statement not the witness. Did you read the Grand Jury report yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:02 PM) The point I am trying to make, that is being incredibly misunderstood, is that the media will trip over themselves as to who can articulate how sad this is for the victims, and then immediately switch gears and make this as much about Joe Paterno and Penn State as possible, so as to blow up the story for their own benefit. And yet, the kids this happened to are just as real anywhere as those that it happened to at Penn State. I personally have no sympathy for Paterno. It's unfair that he's being labeled as the main bad guy here, but it's like blaming a member of a gang that robs banks for killing a guy when it was one of the other members. The guy is still a bank robber and as long as they all go down, I don't care about the individual sentences. That's just my opinion, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) Are you asking me if another teacher told me they witnessed something, I would remind them of their legal resposnibility. Remember the GA called his dad that night and his dad told him to tell Paterno. Even his dad didn't call the police. Now should his dad lose his job also? He dad knew about it well before Paterno? And I would call Child Protective Services and the police. Well, you've sort of rendered your questions moot with your last sentence:--ou wouldn't simply kick the issue up to your superiors through the "chain of command" and then wash your hands of the matter. I guess the analogous situation would be a teacher's aid telling you they witnessed the history teacher fondling a student. You both have a legal obligation to report that, but you would go above and beyond doing the bare minimum to CYA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) They are referring to the statement not the witness. Did you read the Grand Jury report yet? I have. What's your point? Paterno already said in hindsight he wished he had taken a different approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:06 PM) Ok, you won't get disagreement from me on that point. But this is a distinctly different point from Paterno's inactions. Well, I know the GJ report is probably the most influential piece of evidence out there that there is, but I am certainly not going to let the media color my opinion of what Paterno did or did not do here until the facts are out. There is a clear desire by the organizations delivering 95% of the information we are consuming about this for it all to be as much about Joe Paterno as it can. Why the heck would I trust those organizations before all the information has been presented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) What the hell is a "powerful" eyewitness.? lol. Did you see it happen or not? Again, the media doing what they do best. Someone who is credible, knows the accused (reliable ID) and has no motivations to make this story up. There are plenty of problems with eye-witness testimony, but not when you have an unmotivated person who knows the accused saying what they saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) I personally have no sympathy for Paterno. It's unfair that he's being labeled as the main bad guy here, but it's like blaming a member of a gang that robs banks for killing a guy when it was one of the other members. The guy is still a bank robber and as long as they all go down, I don't care about the individual sentences. That's just my opinion, though. Who exactly is labeling him "The main bad guy". He committed a fireable offense. I don't think anyone here has suggested he go to jail. The people above his head are facing legit jail time, as is the actual main bad guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) Someone who is credible, knows the accused (reliable ID) and has no motivations to make this story up. There are plenty of problems with eye-witness testimony, but not when you have an unmotivated person who knows the accused saying what they saw. I actually misread that sentence. They were referring to his statement. So disregard that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) Well, I know the GJ report is probably the most influential piece of evidence out there that there is, but I am certainly not going to let the media color my opinion of what Paterno did or did not do here until the facts are out. There is a clear desire by the organizations delivering 95% of the information we are consuming about this for it all to be as much about Joe Paterno as it can. Why the heck would I trust those organizations before all the information has been presented? I've read or heard little of this story outside of the GJ testimony and this thread. I generally don't care much about college football and have no real opinion of Paterno outside of this situation. I do not believe that my opinion has been colored or shaped by the media. But, I have to ask, what additional information are you waiting for before you can form your conclusions? The GJ testimony is pretty thorough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) I personally have no sympathy for Paterno. It's unfair that he's being labeled as the main bad guy here, but it's like blaming a member of a gang that robs banks for killing a guy when it was one of the other members. The guy is still a bank robber and as long as they all go down, I don't care about the individual sentences. That's just my opinion, though. Oh, so now Paterno is a gang member and a bank robber, because he was the main figurehead? So by your analogy, Paterno is a child molester? Do you see why this being reported this way is a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) Who exactly is labeling him "The main bad guy". He committed a fireable offense. I don't think anyone here has suggested he go to jail. The people above his head are facing legit jail time, as is the actual main bad guy. I don't f***ing know, man. Apparently the media is portraying this as being about Joe Paterno. That's the only thing I'm referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:12 PM) Who exactly is labeling him "The main bad guy". He committed a fireable offense. I don't think anyone here has suggested he go to jail. The people above his head are facing legit jail time, as is the actual main bad guy. Well undoubtedly a disproportionate amount of the attention will be on Paterno, but that's to be expected since he's a well-known figure and centrally involved in the story. It's not like it is some tangential relationship that they're dragging him in with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) Who exactly is labeling him "The main bad guy". He committed a fireable offense. I don't think anyone here has suggested he go to jail. The people above his head are facing legit jail time, as is the actual main bad guy. So you do not see the problem with Paterno losing his job as a freaking football coach being the bigger story than a child molester holding summer camps on the campus of Penn State? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:15 PM) Oh, so now Paterno is a gang member and a bank robber, because he was the main figurehead? So by your analogy, Paterno is a child molester? Do you see why this being reported this way is a problem? Frankly, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) So you do not see the problem with Paterno losing his job as a freaking football coach being the bigger story than a child molester holding summer camps on the campus of Penn State? Honestly, no. One of these would be a large local story. One of these would be a large national story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) I've read or heard little of this story outside of the GJ testimony and this thread. I generally don't care much about college football and have no real opinion of Paterno outside of this situation. I do not believe that my opinion has been colored or shaped by the media. But, I have to ask, what additional information are you waiting for before you can form your conclusions? The GJ testimony is pretty thorough. But most people are not you, SS. Quite a lot of Americans are going to hear this in passing during the commercials of Wheel of Fortune and stupidly confuse things. As for me, I want to hear Paterno's side of things before I actually condemn him of moral turpitude. Edited November 9, 2011 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:18 PM) Honestly, no. One of these would be a large local story. One of these would be a large national story. Well that's fine then. I guess you have no problem with using the rapes of teenage boys to make money off a story about a football coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 So you do not see the problem with Paterno losing his job as a freaking football coach being the bigger story than a child molester holding summer camps on the campus of Penn State? 1) Sandusky's fate is in the legal system and no amount of media/public attention/scrutiny is going to affect that. Media/public attention/scrutiny most certainly plays a role in Paterno's fate. 2) Being in the legal system, Sandusky's fate will be determined at a snail's pace. Paterno's fate can be decided within a couple days. So yes, there are a couple good reasons why Paterno is the bigger story right now. It doesn't mean that what he did was worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) Oh, so now Paterno is a gang member and a bank robber, because he was the main figurehead? So by your analogy, Paterno is a child molester? Do you see why this being reported this way is a problem? I led off my statement by saying that it's unfair that he's being labeled as a main bad guy. My point is that there is a group of guys all involved together like a gang (Sandusky, Paterno, AD, GA, etc.). They are all guilty of doing something (failing to alert authorities/robbing), but one guy is guilty of doing something much worse (child molestation/murder). It might be unfair for one of the guys to take the media hit as being the center of it all when he's only guilty of a lesser crime, but that in my opinion, I really don't give a s*** who gets crucified by the media if they all get their just dessert. In no way am I saying that Joe Paterno has ever donned a Richard Nixon mask and robbed a bank only to be thwarted by Keanu Reeves. It's simply an analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:19 PM) But most people are not you, SS. Most Americans are going to hear this in passing during the commercials of Wheel of Fortune and stupidly confuse things. As for me, I want to hear Paterno's side of things before I actually condemn him of moral turpitude. I don't care about "most Americans." I'm interested in what's being discussed itt. Stop deflecting with this media coverage stuff from what was actually being discussed, which was Paterno's and others' roles and responsibilities in this situation. Paterno's side of things are included in the GJ findings. What could you hear from him that would excuse his inaction in your mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) 1) Sandusky's fate is in the legal system and no amount of media/public attention/scrutiny is going to affect that. Media/public attention/scrutiny most certainly plays a role in Paterno's fate. 2) Being in the legal system, Sandusky's fate will be determined at a snail's pace. Paterno's fate can be decided within a couple days. So yes, there are a couple good reasons why Paterno is the bigger story right now. It doesn't mean that what he did was worse. Perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) Well that's fine then. I guess you have no problem with using the rapes of teenage boys to make money off a story about a football coach. Should the media not be reporting this? Should they ignore or downplay that a well-known coach was involved in the supposed investigations and reporting of the abuse? The media makes money off of stories; the bigger the story, the more money that make. That doesn't mean they shouldn't cover big stories or important issues because it is also in their own self-interest to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) Well that's fine then. I guess you have no problem with using the rapes of teenage boys to make money off a story about a football coach. GMAB man, you can say this exact same thing about any terrible situation. I guess you have no problem with terrorism since the media made money off of running ads when September 11th happened. I mean, this is nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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