Penn State horror story

[StrangeSox]

Oh goodness. It was an oversimplification to make a point. Chill.

 

It was a dishonest portrayal of what people here are actually saying. The only point you made was that you can't honestly address what is being said about Paterno.

 

Again, I've stated several times now how the media's portrayal is similar. As I said, listen to the media reporting it and then we'll debate it.

 

I haven't seen any examples here. Making Paterno the focus of the story when he shouldn't be is not the same as a completely dishonest portrayal of the facts of the case.

 

[iamshack]

Wait, he said something to that effect? That sounds godawful.

Rock's taking it a bit out of context.

 

He said the university has far more important concerns, such as the victims, rather than concerning themselves with his impending retirement.

[TaylorStSox]

I have. What's your point? Paterno already said in hindsight he wished he had taken a different approach.

Hindsight? The motherf***er had 13 years of hindsight.

[iamshack]

What other efforts could he have made where the following scenario makes sense:

 

A current subordinate and former player of Paterno's comes to him with allegations that Paterno's long-time friend, who happens to spend an inordinate amount of time with young boys, was molesting or raping a young boy in the PSU locker room. Paterno rightfully alerts his AD.

 

 

These are known facts to this point. Now, let's speculate:

 

Paterno hands the matter off to his AD, trusting him to follow through. Paterno, deeply troubled by these accusations, follows up relentlessly. He is assured repeatedly that the matter is being investigated. Eventually, he is told that it does not appear that Sandusky did molest this young man, but this young man was never found and just to be safe we're going to bar him from bringing boys around campus any more.

 

Paterno can rest easy knowing that his friend didn't really molest those boys, but now he has someone on his staff who accused his life-long friend and colleague of child molestation. How can you keep him around and working for you for almost a decade more? How can you not discuss this manner further with your AD and your GA and get this resolved?

But the problem is peoples' opinions are formed using that speculation. And then as time goes by, people forget that it was just speculation that formed their opinions. Why not just wait for the actual facts before I form my opinion?

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Well I'm sorry, but I just don't hold him as responsible for not chasing this guy down and the vast majority of you guys. Some people just don't want to be involved in sick s*** like that.

 

Turning a blind eye to sick s*** like that, allowing it to continue unabated, is a moral failing, not a justification.

 

I have far greater ire towards the police that turned a blind eye. I find it far more disturbing that the organization entrusted by the public and charged with preventing these sort of people from walking around amongst us did nothing than Paterno's inaction. But apparently that is not as big of a story and there are not going to be any threads created to discuss that issue.

 

The police, apparently, did their job but the DA failed:

 

1998

Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.

 

Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."

 

Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.

 

The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.

[RockRaines]

Well I'm sorry, but I just don't hold him as responsible for not chasing this guy down and the vast majority of you guys. Some people just don't want to be involved in sick s*** like that.

 

Does he deserve to lose his job. Probably so.

 

Do I find it necessary to condemn him personally? No.

 

I have far greater ire towards the police that turned a blind eye. I find it far more disturbing that the organization entrusted by the public and charged with preventing these sort of people from walking around amongst us did nothing than Paterno's inaction. But apparently that is not as big of a story and there are not going to be any threads created to discuss that issue.

You are preaching to the choir buddy, dont forget I have watched and read several people on here and in the media call the Vest a scumbag for months because of one seemingly small (in comparison) error that he committed. I dont think Paterno is really that bad of a guy, but you have to admit he could have done more, and I'm also positive he knew more. I think the condemnation of his character is definitely something that shouldnt take place unless more evidence is uncovered, but at least it should cost him and the other people involved their jobs immediately.

[iamshack]

But he continued allowing that person access to his facilities and presumably continued staying in contact with him. Unless he completely shut the door with him and never spoke to him again after the allegations, he was directly involved in sick s*** like that.

It pretty much seems like he did that, Balta.

[StrangeSox]

Rock's taking it a bit out of context.

 

He said the university has far more important concerns, such as the victims, rather than concerning themselves with his impending retirement.

 

PSU doesn't really have anything to do with the victims, though. It's a police/judicial matter at this point. He's trying to deflect attention.

[RockRaines]

The police, apparently, did their job but the DA failed:

This then resulted in the retirement of Sandusky from PSU.

 

However he was still allowed to keep his professor Emeritus status, was still allowed to use PSU money to take children on trips and stay in hotels, and was allowed to bring these children on campus with him without any restrictions.

Edited November 9, 2011 by RockRaines

[StrangeSox]

But the problem is peoples' opinions are formed using that speculation. And then as time goes by, people forget that it was just speculation that formed their opinions. Why not just wait for the actual facts before I form my opinion?

 

The point of the speculation is that I can't come up with any plausible scenario that fits with what we already know that a) makes sense and b) casts Paterno in a better light.

 

What additional facts are possibly out there that fit what we already know?

[Balta1701]

It pretty much seems like he did that, Balta.

Can you back that one up? Because the reaction of the Penn State folks seems to have been "you can still come on campus just don't bring kids".

[iamshack]

Turning a blind eye to sick s*** like that, allowing it to continue unabated, is a moral failing, not a justification.

 

 

 

The police, apparently, did their job but the DA failed:

Well, I don't make it my business to assess the moral failings of others. I have enough work to do on my own moral failings.

 

As for the police and the DA, that excerpt is the same piece I read. It's a bit ambiguous to know exactly where the ball was dropped. But the DA does not usually make it a habit to just drop things like that...unless the evidence was obtained incorrectly.

[StrangeSox]

It pretty much seems like he did that, Balta.

 

If Paterno cut a life-long friend out of his life, that's a pretty clear indication that he didn't think the allegations were baseless.

[iamshack]

PSU doesn't really have anything to do with the victims, though. It's a police/judicial matter at this point. He's trying to deflect attention.

Yeah, rightfully so! This should be primarily about the University dealing with Sandusky and his actions on their campus, not how many more football games Paterno coaches this season.

[StrangeSox]

Well, I don't make it my business to assess the moral failings of others. I have enough work to do on my own moral failings.

 

That's pretty much what this entire discussion is about.

[iamshack]

This then resulted in the retirement of Sandusky from PSU.

 

However he was still allowed to keep his professor Emeritus status, was still allowed to use PSU money to take children on trips and stay in hotels, and was allowed to bring these children on campus with him without any restrictions.

And that is a university issue, not a Joe Paterno issue.

[iamshack]

The point of the speculation is that I can't come up with any plausible scenario that fits with what we already know that a) makes sense and b) casts Paterno in a better light.

 

What additional facts are possibly out there that fit what we already know?

I doubt you could have come up with this scenario prior to reading about it either.

 

So why not just wait to hear what it is? What is to be lost by waiting to find out?

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, rightfully so! This should be primarily about the University dealing with Sandusky and his actions on their campus, not how many more football games Paterno coaches this season.

 

His attempted deflection is self-interest, not some higher purpose. One really quick way to make the focus shift off of him would be to.....resign immediately instead of sticking around.

[RockRaines]

And that is a university issue, not a Joe Paterno issue.

Who was his direct supervisor and by far the most powerful man in the institution. But yeah, the president and AD should have done more. Pretty consistent theme here.

 

The question is, how much more is going to shake out? With several FOIA requests and more investigation and possible trial we are going to learn a TON more about this situation as always.

[iamshack]

Can you back that one up? Because the reaction of the Penn State folks seems to have been "you can still come on campus just don't bring kids".

Well, I don't know exactly what happened yet, but it appears he made Sandusky retire, he refused to speak at his retirement dinner, he refused to be associated with him in any way.

 

Joe Paterno is not the police. He is not the DA. He is not the enforcer of morality on earth. Joe Paterno is a freaking football coach.

[RockRaines]

If Paterno cut a life-long friend out of his life, that's a pretty clear indication that he didn't think the allegations were baseless.

1. Forced into retirement (1998)

2. Banned from bringing children on Campus (2002)

3. Disassociated from Charity (2008)

 

 

Three strikes right?

[Milkman delivers]

PSU doesn't really have anything to do with the victims, though. It's a police/judicial matter at this point. He's trying to deflect attention.

 

Great point.

[iamshack]

That's pretty much what this entire discussion is about.

And I said my piece, and then brought up other issues I thought were pertinent as well.

 

Is that a moral failing of mine as well, to introduce other issues?

[iamshack]

His attempted deflection is self-interest, not some higher purpose. One really quick way to make the focus shift off of him would be to.....resign immediately instead of sticking around.

I disagree. I think Paterno is probably legitimately saddened by all this, and not just looking to cover his own ass.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2011 by iamshack

[StrangeSox]

I doubt you could have come up with this scenario prior to reading about it either.

 

A scenario where someone is seeing doing something really wrong, but people in a position of power cover it up to protect their own reputations? That's not really a novel situation.

 

So why not just wait to hear what it is? What is to be lost by waiting to find out?

 

The problem is that there is always more evidence, more things we can wait to find out before 'rushing to judgement.' At this point, there appears to be sufficient evidence to understand what happened in this case. That it is difficult or impossible to come up with a plausible scenario that makes Paterno not look like an ass illustrates this.